Chat Night Transcript for Speaking Submissively

This chat was held on December 2nd, 2009.

~lunaKM> So tonight I wanted to talk about speech and how the way we communicate can impact our submission.

Nia> tonight’s topic really struck a chord with me

angel> same here

~lunaKM> I’ve been doing a bit of non-scientific research of my own when I am out and about and am appalled at the way we talk to each other anymore.

~lunaKM> It’s like the care and respect for strangers no longer exists.

~lunaKM> But furthermore, how we talk to our family has also gone downhill.

~lunaKM> We can take our submissive nature (whether learned or natural) and use it to bring back grace and charm to conversation.

~lunaKM> You can feel free to chime in any time thoughts pop into your head, this is an open discussion.

angel> :)

angel> i didn’t want to interrupt

Nia> ty, luna

angel> i agree with you. i’ve notice how even friends in public speak to one another…

~lunaKM> I’d like to touch on gossiping, vulgarities, person bashing and docile speech with your partner

Nia> i concur…observing my and other’s speech at work shames me

angel> my Sir always tells me that you can speak about anything, but it’s how it’s presented that makes the difference

~lunaKM> Exactly and we can cover that first since you brought it up.

~lunaKM> What’s the difference between these to requests:

~lunaKM> a. I’m going to the store Sir.

~lunaKM> b. May I go to the store Sir?

angel> b is a request. a is telling/more aggressive

Nia> i see (a) as information and (b) as a request for permission

~lunaKM> You are both correct.

Nia> i think (a) would be appropriate only as a response to a question from my Mama as to where I am going?

~lunaKM> a was the more aggressive way to voice your need to go to the store.

angel> yes…i also like Nia’s (a) too :)

~lunaKM> :)

angel> i’ll have to admit, though, sometimes it’s hard

~lunaKM> With just a slight change we can turn our requests into questions or suggestions. Words that still give your Dominant the upper hand.

Nia> yes, i agree

~lunaKM> It’s totally hard, I struggle with it all the time.

angel> oh, good. it’s not just me

Nia> i have been away from my Mama for a year…we just got back together a few weeks ago and the transition is harder than i thought

angel> i’m in the same boat with you Nia. my relationship is long distance and i fall out of it at times

angel> the speech, i mean

~lunaKM> Ok, how about these two phrases…(I’m making them up as I go)

~lunaKM> a. The house needs to be repainted.

~lunaKM> b. I’m going to paint the house.

Nia> (a) is definitely more passive in tone

angel> (a) gives the Dominant a chance to respond either yes or no. (b) takes that way

Nia> however, (b) does mean that i am taking responsibility for this chore

~lunaKM> A allows a dialog to be opened up and the Dominant to make decisions.

~lunaKM> If it is your responsiblity to maintain the outside of the house, sure it might be okay, but a cost incurred for doing so may not be.

Nia> (b) does take the risk of offending your Domme

~lunaKM> It sure does

angel> i agree

~lunaKM> Speaking passively is a safer route to take when talking directly to your Dominant.

~lunaKM> Of course it’s something that comes naturally.

Nia> do you feel that it would be the same at home as in public?

~lunaKM> Nia, do you mean in conversations with your Dominant or with everyone?

Nia> with everyone, my Mama and i work together

~lunaKM> There are always occasions where passive speech just will not work

~lunaKM> Times where authority or responsibility is necessary to claim in order to make your point. But in a relationship where your submission is on display, it’s better to be subordinant in speech as well as deed.

~lunaKM> And of course this won’t work for everyone in every relationship.

angel> i think it’s the Dominant who sets the tone as well. sometimes He/She will allow you to take more verbal control of a situation. but i agree in a D/s setting it’s safer to be softer in speech

~lunaKM> My Master hates it when I say, “Whatever you’d like” (being passive) He wants to know my opinion before making decisions and giving him no options frustrates the living daylights out of him.

Nia> i am a switch and also have a sub boi, so i have to change up several times a day

angel> that’s interesting Nia. is your boi with you while you are with your Domme?

Nia> “whatever you like” drives me crazy too, i try to make suggestions, but leave it up to my Mama to set my priorities each day

Nia> so i want to learn how to keep things transparent with my speech, to emphasize my status with each of them in a non-violent manner

angel> i imagine that it is tough to switch verbal gears in that situation. i find it hard to do coming from work :) i try to stop and think of who i am speaking to (my Sir) before responding.

~lunaKM> So you could get really good with switching from passive to active speech. Set it up to an artform!

Nia> and i have 2 teenage daughters who are finding themselves…menopause on top of all of that! whew!

~lunaKM> lol, quite a handful

angel> lol..tough all the way around

~lunaKM> So, how about we move in to gossiping

~lunaKM> What do you feel about gossip?

angel> it’s a fine line between gossiping and sharing

Nia> it’s funny that when my co-workers are gossiping and i’m not, they seem to feel threatened…that i think i’m better than them by refusing to join the conversation

~lunaKM> I think a lot of gossiping is unrequested information about someone else. I used to be a huge gossip girl.

Nia> but i feel that gossip is usually more about the person who is gossiping

~lunaKM> I’d term that as bragging Nia

angel> how did you stop yourself from gossiping, luna?

Nia> not really, i don’t think that i am better than them…they just think that

Nia> yes, how did you stop, luna?

~lunaKM> Well, It wasn’t easy really. I decided that if the information wasn’t about me, that I had no right to share it.

angel> didn’t you feel like you would explode?

angel> :)

~lunaKM> So no matter how badly I wanted to talk about what happened at the party, etc, if it wasn’t me then it wasn’t my story.

Nia> true that

~lunaKM> At first I did feel that way; then I realized that I was not showing myself in a good light if I could simply talk about everyone else without a care for their thoughts.

angel> hmmm…makes perfect sense.

~lunaKM> I now get so many people wanting to share themselves with me because they know I will guard their trust

Nia> how do you keep from getting drawn into the gossip of others?

~lunaKM> And that really is more important.

~lunaKM> Well, I tend to shut gossip down pretty fast. I just tell them that I won’t talk about people that aren’t part of the conversation since we could be getting the facts wrong.

Nia> excellent point and idea

angel> yes, that is a good statement to use-it’s not harsh but puts a spin on it that others may not get the facts right either

~lunaKM> I’ve had to counter that once when someone kept going and asked them why they felt the need to talk about something that could hurt someone else’s reputation/feelings.

~lunaKM> I’ve wanted to say, ‘Is your life really that boring that we have to talk about other people?’

Nia> there are always 2 sides to every story…sometimes more

~lunaKM smirks

Nia> bravo

angel> :)

~lunaKM> I mean gossip is meant to puff up the person gossiping and tear down the person they are talking about, is it not?

Nia> there is so much that i can share about myself and listening to others sharing about themselves…why bring 3rd parties into it?

~lunaKM> So why do they need that inflated ego?

angel> good points

Nia> cursing, or as you called it “vulgarities”, is a character defect i am really struggling with now

Nia> any advice?

~lunaKM> Well, don’t laugh but I make up words instead of using curse words.

~lunaKM> So Jesus Christ has always been jimminey cricket

angel> i have to admit, the only time i do curse is during “relations”. i guess that’s not good either

angel> lol..cute luna

~lunaKM> lol, I can curse all I want during play/sex… it’s a turn on for both of us

Nia> lol…sorry i had to laugh :)

~lunaKM> That’s okay, sometimes Master repeats the word and I realize just how silly it sounds, but it keeps me from getting in trouble for cursing

Nia> for me it more about controlling my speech when i am angry/frustrated…the words just jump out before i can edit them

~lunaKM> Ah well that’s just as hard.

~lunaKM> The only thing for that is tempering…. mental counting before expressing your anger or frustration.

~lunaKM> It’s not something I’m good at yet (thus the fake curse words)

Nia> my Mama just gives a look, and i feel so ashamed

angel> good advice. taking a deep breath. think jimminey cricket

~lunaKM> lol

Nia> hehe

~lunaKM> the one that Master hates is when he says Son of a.. and I finish it with beehive!

angel> LOL

Nia> my youngest daughter charges me a quarter, fifty cents on sundays…i think i’ve paid for her college tuition this year

~lunaKM> that’s a good incentive if it makes a difference, although if you’ve paid tuition then it must not be so good.

angel> lol…money usually works. at least it benefits someone

Nia> well, i yell a lot during football games

Nia> but seriously, i realize how verbally abusive i can be, and want to change

~lunaKM> This is something that you can work on with your Dominant if you ask for help.

angel> maybe if you picture the look from your Mama before you say it, it will help you to cut down on it.

~lunaKM> Of course it’s going to be hard, but if you want to change and it’s a positive thing I don’t see why she wouldn’t help.

Nia> wow, i’ve never even asked for her help….thanks for the suggestions angel & luna

angel> :)

~lunaKM smiles. Sometimes it take someone else to point out the obvious.

~lunaKM> Are we ready for the last point I want to cover tonight?

angel> sure

Nia> yes

~lunaKM> I’ve seen this a lot on online forums and communities

~lunaKM> person/dominant bashing

Nia> ah, i’ve seen this a lot too

~lunaKM> In generalities it’s when someone says that someone isn’t a good Dominant based on one sided conversation, or that you aren’t a true submissive because of x, y and z. Essentially bashing teh person without all the facts.

~lunaKM> In an online community it is almost impossible to know exactly what is going on with someone when they write just as soon as they experience hurt or anger or fear. That isn’t the time to write, but so many do and it starts damaging the reputation of someone else.

angel> i’ve seen that a lot too

Nia> i understand the need to vent, but damaging the reputation of your Dominant isn’t going to help anything

~lunaKM> I tend to steer clear of these sorts of threads except to say that we don’t know the other person’s side or to recommend that the person reflect on the issue after the intense feelings have faded and they may see it in another light.

angel> good point, Nia. sometimes you do need to vent and for some, the online community is all they have. but, maybe it should be with a online friend and not a thread

angel> i wish everyone responded that way, luna :)

Nia> yes, being discrete should come first

Nia> or i wish that they could relate just their side without all of the damaging details (Dominant’s name, etc.)

~lunaKM> I agree

Nia> a saying in recovery programs is “if i am not the problem, there is no solution”

~lunaKM> I think that in those situations they aren’t seeing what THEY did wrong, only what is bothering them from the other person.

angel> exactly

~lunaKM> heh, that’s just about what I said

Nia> yeah, all i read in those posts is an invitation to a pity party

~lunaKM> no kidding and I never accept those invites.

angel> same here

~lunaKM> They are usually closed off to advice that doesn’t support their anger or frustration either.

angel> never thought of it that way, but that’s true

___

Do you have anything else to add? What are your thoughts?

photo by katie teqtmeyer

Can You Separate BDSM and Sex?

When Master and I get to play, it’s quite sexually charged. We find the play and the energy we swap as very sexual. Our play time usually ends in sex of some form. That’s just how we roll. Does it always have to be that way? Heck no! In fact, when I was casually playing, there was no sex at all.

But can you really separate the sex from BDSM? You have to admit that much of what we do during play time is rooted in sexual pleasure and sensation. Even if you are never touched sexually you can achieve orgasm. Does this make it sex or BDSM?

My first kinky experiences were purely sexual and yet I can and have separated the idea  of sex from BDSM. I’m not exactly sure how it happened. Perhaps it could have been necessity. I was casually seeing people when I started exploring. I know that sex was special and important to a relationship; a relationship I wasn’t kindling with any of these partners.

What really comes down to it for you and each partner you have is how you define sex. For myself and the casual partners, sex was any form of penetration. For Master and myself that definition is more inclusive of everything we do.

I recommend that you have a discussion with your partner as a part of negotiation for the first play session that you define what sex is and if it’s a welcome part of your play. I’ve talked about negotiations before so I’m not going to get into the depth of it, but it is a very important part of a new relationship and can be important in well established ones too in certain situations.

So much of what we do is sexual because that is how most of us first explore our kinky side. It’s not uncommon for all of us to start out with the tentative sensations during sex and keep our new side hidden behind bedroom doors. This association alone could lead to your understanding that BDSM is the same as sex.

It doesn’t have to be. If you have been to any variety of play parties you will see a wide variety of play styles. Most parties have rules regarding sexual play. Some won’t allow any at all. Yet you will still see people enjoying themselves and having a good time.

Should you separate BDSM and Sex? That’s completely up to you; but as I’ve said previously there are reasons to do so and there are just as valid reasons not to. BDSM play tends to be just as intimate as sex, sometimes moreso. This is a decision that you should make for yourself while you are still searching for your Dominant or play partner. Stick to what you decide.  Your future intimacy depends on your decisions now.

So, what about you? Can you separate sex from BDSM?

Other Thoughts on BDSM and Sex

• Our chat discussion transcript from 8/25/09 on this very topic
• Is BDSM Sexual?
• BDSM vs. Kink

Submissive Chat Night 11/3/09: Views On Protocol

It’s time for another chat night here at Submissive Guide. This week’s topic will be one I am very interested in. As always, the chat is expected to last about 1 1/2 hours and is open to everyone.

When: 11/03/09 at 8:00pm Central Time

Where: Chat room located on the website

Topic: Different Views on Protocl

I will be asking you to give me permission to save a transcript of the chat session and post it on the website for others to share in the conversation. Dominants are welcome to attend. See everyone then!

Optional Pre-reading

• Protocol
• Protocol, Etiquette and Ritual
• Basic BDSM Protocol – pdf
• Why I Don’t Give a Hoot about Protocol and Why It’s Important to Know Anyhow
• Some Notes on Scene Etiquette and Leather Protocol

Submissive Chat Night 10/27/09: Dating and Online Dominant Searches

It’s time for another chat night here at Submissive Guide. This week’s topic will be one I am very interested in. As always, the chat is expected to last about 1 1/2 hours and is open to everyone.

When: 10/27/09 at 8:00pm Central Time

Where: Chat room located on the website

Topic: Dating and Online Dominant Searches

I will be asking you to give me permission to save a transcript of the chat session and post it on the website for others to share in the conversation. Dominants are welcome to attend. See everyone then!

Optional Pre-Work

• Red Flags, Warning Signs, and Intuition: Learning to Trust You Instincts – Part One: Dominants
• Dating in the Lifestyle
• On Love and D/s

Questions:

1. What are the most common ways to find Dominants to date?
2. What is considered a safe way to meet someone?
3. What is expected on a date with a Dominant?
4. What isn’t expected on a date with a Dominant?
5. What is the difference between dating in the vanilla sense and dating in D/s?
6. Around what date do you play? Compared to when you’d open up for possible sex during a vanilla relationship, why do you allow play at this point in time?

Chat Night Transcript From What is Service Talk

lunaKM> So, first I’d like to get some impression about how new you are to submission. Could you please tell me how long you have been exploring submission and if you are in a relationship right now?

lunaKM> hello aquamuse

aquamuse> Hello, I’m new of course.

eagerslut> I am in a relationship and just recently discovered I am submissive and asked my master to teach me. Previously he had other subs

selene1123> i am currently in a 24/7 m/s relationship…have been exploring submission for about 6 months

aquamuse> I am in my first positive and healthy D/s relationship now with a man who is just discovering how much he likes it when I do what he asks.

aquamuse> about 6 months.

eagerslut> We always have had a sexual d/s relationship but 2 wks ago i discovered I wanted a 24/7

pleasure> i am in a 24/7 D/s relationship for over 6 years now…..i am 53 and in the lifestyle 6 1/2 years

bc26_2> i have only been doing this since march of this year and i am in a D/s relationship for that same amount of time

lunaKM> I’ve been living 24/7 for 5 years, just so you know ;)

pleasure> smiles

eagerslut> :O:

lunaKM> Ok, so we have a range of experience levels. thank you so much for sharing with me.

pleasure> it’s an ever evolving lifestyle and growth, no matter how long one has been in it

eagerslut> That is what I believe

lunaKM> Now, what do you think service is to you? No answer is wrong.

selene1123> To me, service is anything i physically do for Master’s purpose or enjoyment

aquamuse> I’m going to venture here and say service is being totally available, open and willing to comply. This assumes my basic needs are taken care of and put to the side for the time being.

eagerslut> Doing something for someone that would make them happy,even if you don’t feel like doing it. Giving your heart and soul to please that person

pleasure> nick/pleasure…….service/submission..is all the same to me…what ever makes my Sir life easier, happier…and i might add that i am actually more a slave

lunaKM> I’ve always believed that service is a part of my submission and what I give to my Master on a daily basis. Service is, to me, the activities that help the house run, our life be enjoyable and the basic needs met.

pleasure> yes exactly luna

eagerslut> That is very true

lunaKM> But I had someone explain to me yesterday on my recent post that they believe service is separate from submission

lunaKM> and I really like that explanation she gave too.

bc26_2> i agree with service being anything that makes the house run and enjoyable…even when my Mistress is not here

selene1123> i see service as the physical representation of my emotion submission

selene1123> *emotional

aquamuse> I like that selene1123

lunaKM> I’m going to quote it here… CarrieAnn said: To me, service and submission are different. Service is something I do because I’m required to or even want to but doesn’t necessarily require that I submit to anything or anyone. I can not have a submissive bone in my body and still serve. Submission is more direct; surrender to his will, submission to his dominance. The two often merge but are not always one and the same.
eagerslut> I like that too

bc26_2> oh i like that too

pleasure> yes i like that

eagerslut> I can see that point

lunaKM> So as you can see for some of us they are the same thing, but for others they are separate

lunaKM> Perhaps that is why I see people identify as service submissives?

eagerslut> As is everything in life we are all different and we interpret things differently,from our own background

eagerslut> I like that term

bc26_2> i feel that i am in service to many — myself, my Mistress, my daughter at some level…but i submit to only my Mistress

lunaKM> If we can agree that service is likely to be activities and not emotional in nature then perhaps we can come up with a list of things that are service?

aquamuse> I can agree with the definition.

eagerslut> I am a nurse so I feel I service others on a daily basis but I submit to my MAster .

bc26_2> i agree

lunaKM> alright so is my daily coffee preparation for my Master service or submission?

lunaKM> How about the daily chores?

pleasure> i am a nurse too,as like eager, i only submit to my Sir

eagerslut> C

selene1123> i would consider daily tasks or chores service

aquamuse> by definiton – these are examples of serice.

eagerslut> keeping the house clean

selene1123> but why you do it and how you do it is an aspect of submission

eagerslut> making sure my Masters children are taken care of

pleasure> laundry, making the bed..keeping the house clean is all service…

* lunaKM nods

lunaKM> Is sex a form of service?

eagerslut> BAking.massages,listening

aquamuse> baby making?

pleasure> my Sir has set in rules for a clean house

pleasure> yes i believe that would be a service aqua

selene1123> sex to me is a form of service

pleasure> i agree selene

eagerslut> Yes I think sex is a form of service,but I love it so much it definitely isn’t a chore

pleasure> no chore here either lol

aquamuse> hehe

lunaKM> Are all things service related as chores though?

pleasure> service doesn’t have to be something enjoyed

lunaKM> I’d think that there are some things you do that you enjoy just as much as sex as service.

aquamuse> I have things like workouts and keeping a calendar updated – are these service by our definition?

pleasure> no i don’t think all things service related are chores

eagerslut> I hate to cook but I do it because my Master loves it when I do. He generally does most of the cooking but I know he is very pleased when I do

lunaKM> I believe so aqua

selene1123> service itself is enjoyable to me…even if the act i am performing may not be

lunaKM> For me that’s hard to get in touch with selene1123. I’m quite expressive in my face and even if I try not to show my displeasure at a task he tends to figure it out.

bc26_2> i agree with you selene

pleasure> yes but you are still serving luna

aquamuse> me too selene1123

lunaKM> heh, I hear that a lot from him also :P

eagerslut> I do also

lunaKM> Next thought…. do all submissives serve and do all that serve submit?

pleasure> no

eagerslut> No

aquamuse> no

bc26_2> no

lunaKM> In what way can we describe the separation?

pleasure> it’s clearly upon each individual and the circumstances of the relationship

eagerslut> I think they are interchangable

pleasure> i don’t think there is line to divide the two….they do intertwine at times for many of us

selene1123> some may serve out of necessity or arrangement (like a stay-at-home mother or father) but that doesn’t mean they are submitting

pleasure> very true

eagerslut> Yes I agree

pleasure> to submit for me is doing something i detest….and yet serving

pleasure> does that make sense ?

lunaKM> Why do you think service is held in such a high place when Dominants talk about what they would like in a partner?

lunaKM> It does pleasure.

eagerslut> I think serving is a task you can do for anyone and submission is giving your being over to your Master.

eagerslut> To establish routines

pleasure> first of all….Dominates…are predominately Male….and have different ideas and thoughts as to what serving is…it’s what and how They define it

aquamuse> I know my Lover simply enjoys the idea that I obey him in simple requests. I think the power of that has suprised him.

eagerslut> To esatblish who is in control

selene1123> i agree with eagerslut – to emphasize who has the reins in the relationship

aquamuse> I agree too with eagerslut

lunaKM> I think that since service is what they can see immediately as a result of their dominance that they tend to place that a bit higher in importance

lunaKM> submission may not be immediate, but you can serve

eagerslut> Yes how true

pleasure> yes

aquamuse> that idea works for me luna.

selene1123> i can see that

pleasure> there are those that identify as bottoms..they serve..but don’t submit

lunaKM> So is the desire to serve natural or something learned?

eagerslut> Both

aquamuse> for me it seems to be natural.

pleasure> one can only answer for themselves….for me it natural…and yet i feel it can be learned

eagerslut> Some come by it naturally but anyone can learn to serve if they desire

lunaKM> it’s completely learned for me. and it’s not coming easy, that’s for sure

bc26_2> it depends – it is natural for me

aquamuse> I read your bio today.

lunaKM> which one aquamuse?

selene1123> yes, it depends on the person…i’ve always felt the need to serve, though i never really had an outlet before Master

eagerslut> I am a mixture. I have some inherent ability to serve but I can be very selfish at times

aquamuse> Luna.

lunaKM> Oh I meant which site did you read it on

eagerslut> I agree with selene

pleasure> i am a nurse..to serve is natural….

aquamuse> Yours Luna, you mentioned that the whole submissive thing was contrary to your persona? I hope I got that right?

lunaKM> yeah, I’ve had to do some rewiring. It goes opposite to how I was raised.

lunaKM> I get the greatest thrill though when I do something in full submission mode though.

aquamuse> on the Submissive Guide

lunaKM> Which is probably why I’ve stuck with it.

eagerslut> i always thought taht being liberated and independent I couldn’t be submissive but I have found that since I have given myself over to it I am more liberated

lunaKM> There were a good 6 months I considered going Domme. ;)

pleasure> i lived in a marriage of 23 yrs, and didn’t realize till after my divorce that he was controlling..not Dominate ..there is a difference..and to the way one submits to each

bc26_2> can you describe what you mean by full submission mode

aquamuse> * smiles*

pleasure> you are free now to be who you really are inside

eagerslut> Yes controlling is different My first husband was a controller

selene1123> i agree eagerslut…Master likes to make fun of the fact that i am a feminist submissive

lunaKM> full submission mode for me is when I’m given a task and as I’m performing it, no matter what that is, I feel a peace, like all the pieces fit just right, a perfection at my choices in life.

lunaKM> I’d like to attain that as permanently as possible, but right now it’s just fits and starts.

eagerslut> You explained that beautifully

eagerslut> I will strive for that

bc26_2> nice

lunaKM> I get like a buzzing in my head almost when I get there, and my heart swells in my chest. It’s grand.

aquamuse> I wan’t that too.

pleasure> good way to explain it luna……for myself, luna, i call that “focus”

lunaKM> yeah, it is a focus, sure!

selene1123> to me, it’s a moment of perfect connection with Master

pleasure> smiles

eagerslut> :)

lunaKM> Do any of you provide any unique service to your Dominant?

eagerslut> I remodeled his home,laid tile

pleasure> well….grins ..everything from toweling Him dry after a shower..to tying of His shoes

bc26_2> wow – you go

eagerslut> Had to go to Home depot to learn that

pleasure> Dom Depot lol

eagerslut> ;)

lunaKM> Master loans me out to the BDSM communities around us when calls for volunteers are needed for events. I’ve folded pamphlets to checking people in at the door and serving as hostess.

lunaKM> He’s not as … outgoing as I am… so he says I go in his place :P

selene1123> i act as His personal assistant…He hates writing, remembering appts, anything like that so i kinda “manage” things for Him

lunaKM> I am also Master’s chauffeur. He never drives

eagerslut> I get him out of the house to exercise he hates to get going but enjoys it once he does

eagerslut> Mine hates to drive also

* lunaKM chuckles I wish I could do that for my Owner. He just says watching me is enough workout.

pleasure> we mentor others in the lifestyle..and i have given classes as other Doms request Their subs/slaves need training in areas of service that the Dom is not able to do

pleasure> (at)

lunaKM> I suppose Submissive Guide is a service I provide too

pleasure> oh yes luna !! smiles

eagerslut> Yes it helps me

pleasure> a service to all that reads it

aquamuse> Good service!

selene1123> very informative for the new slave!

bc26_2>  agreed

pleasure> being in the lifestyle for over 6 years now, but i am still a child learning my way

lunaKM> Like eagerslut said, she had to learn something in order to serve in a way or another. What have you went out to learn so that you could serve better?

pleasure> i took geisha classes ! lol

eagerslut> I love to learn and feel like I would wither away if I am not learning

lunaKM> what are geisha classes like?

pleasure> learn grace, pose …..

eagerslut> Oh I would love to do a geisha class

bc26_2> i am putting together a list for my Mistress now on things I need to learn

aquamuse> I learned the theory’s of lifting weights and started workout out.

lunaKM> oh lordy, Master would so have me in a grace and poise class in a

heartbeat.

bc26_2> lol

pleasure> it was fantastic….a part of me woke up, literally…..seeing His eyes the first time i walked in the room with out plunking down on the floor at His feet lol

eagerslut> I love the grace of a geisha. my Master lived in Okinawa and he is into that

selene1123> Master has discussed sending me to geisha classes, but the closest ones are almost 6 hours away :(

eagerslut> :(

lunaKM> awesome I doubt there are any around me, but I’m sure I can find some reference materials online ;)

aquamuse> I read that book about Gehsha. Loved it!

pleasure> google it selene…there are online sites that have wonderful tips, ect

eagerslut> I’ll do that also

aquamuse> I believe beauty is a service.

eagerslut> I have been practicing yoga and getting into position gracefully

pleasure> i may be in jeans and t-shirt one day , dirty in garden dust….but i have a feeling..of being sexy…

pleasure> oh yes i agree aqua

selene1123> definitely aqua

eagerslut> I feel sexy when I think of my Master

pleasure> taking pride in your appearance

lunaKM> Alright, anything else you’d like to cover about service?

bc26_2> yes, taking pride in appearance

eagerslut> Appearance is very important

eagerslut> I love shaving and getting ready to see him

eagerslut> He loves for me to wear dresses and heels.The heels are definately a service

selene1123> haha, my Master is the opposite

pleasure> i shave daily, sometimes twice if we are having company, for a teaching session for others ….shaving is a daily service for many subs/slaves

selene1123> i wear dresses and heels all the tim, so He likes me to wear jeans and sneakers

pleasure> your behavior…just as appearance reflects service….and it reflects back to Your Dom/Master

eagerslut> Yes my Master has already informed me of that. To speak succinctly when asked a question and to think before I speak

pleasure> yes and in a quiet tone…..

pleasure> in geisha training, words are not needed

pleasure> it’s your body that speaks for you

pleasure> the way you move….kneeling down to tie His shoe, He knows i have arthritis in both knees..that is service though painful for me

eagerslut> true

lunaKM> Well ladies that is all I have for tonight. I can stay for another half hour to chat so I’m going to open the floor for free chat if anyone would like to stay.

eagerslut> I’m going to have to get a geisha outfit now

bc26_2> thank you very much for the chat luna

eagerslut> That you for your insight luna

aquamuse> Thank you luna.

Also might interest you

Simply Service Newsletter

Rescheduled! Submissive Chat Night 10/13/09: What is Service?

It’s time for another chat night here at Submissive Guide. This week’s topic will be one I am very interested in. As always, the chat is expected to last about 1 1/2 hours and is open to everyone.

When: 10/13/09 at 8:00pm Central Time

Where: Chat room located on the website

Topic: What is Service?

I will be asking you to give me permission to save a transcript of the chat session and post it on the website for others to share in the conversation. Dominants are welcome to attend. See everyone then!

Optional Pre-Work

1. How do you define service? When is it most evident in your actions or relationship?

2. What services do you provide that you enjoy? What services do you not enjoy?

3. Find an essay online that you think speaks to your idea of service.

Chat Night Transcript From Sub Space and Sub Drop Talk

<~luna[KM]> Now I’d like to hear from everyone… have you experienced subspace? If you don’t know if you have, it’s okay.
<selene1123> i’m pretty new…so i think i have but am not sure
<slavelauren> i have
<radiogirl> I most definitely have
<pet_rain> i’m not sure  i think i would like a clear definition i’v heard different people desribe it differently
<selene1123> thank you pet_rain!  i am confused about some of the contradicting definitions
* ~luna[KM] smiles
<radiogirl> I think subspace would happen differently for each individual
<~luna[KM]> we will definitely be covering that
<slavelauren> i agree with that radiogirl
<~luna[KM]> I have experienced subspace as well, just so you all know where I’m coming from.
<pet_rain> yes everyone experiences everything differently
<~luna[KM]> welcome littlemiss96
<pet_rain> hi
<selene1123> hello
<slavelauren> hi littlemiss96
<littlemiss96> thanks…hi all
<~luna[KM]> we’ve just started talking about subspace and subdrop so jump right in when you feel comfortable.
<radiogirl> For me, subspace is also what I call my “happy place”
<~luna[KM]> are there other words for it?
<slavelauren> same for me
<~luna[KM]> euphoria?
<selene1123> i think that’s a good word for it
<radiogirl> yes, it is a euphoric place
<littlemiss96> i’m still really new to all this, but I think I got there last week…euphoria
<selene1123> like feeling the need to purr, lol
<~luna[KM]> it can also be a primal place
<radiogirl> but its where I am comfortable, secure in myself and my Master’s love
<~luna[KM]> one where you retreat to animal instincts
<radiogirl> yes
<radiogirl> that too
<radiogirl> :)
<slavelauren> so true
<~luna[KM]> So, as you can see sub space is a number of different things, but we can agree that it’s a happy euphoric sensation or ‘place’
<pet_rain> right like youve been redused down to your core and where you feel most content like there is nothing wrong in the world
<slavelauren> yes
<radiogirl> exactly
<selene1123> that perfect feeling
<slavelauren> oh yeah i like that
<pet_rain> okay then i’v experianced that i’v heard it defined very differently though
<radiogirl> so I have a question for you guys
<radiogirl> How do YOU get there?
<~luna[KM]> It’s different each and every time we play
<~luna[KM]> and I don’t get there everytime
<littlemiss96> sometimes its deeper than others
<selene1123> for me, it is through serving Master….even something as simple as dinner or desert
<radiogirl> yes of course littlemiss
<slavelauren> for me its the sound of Masters voice it doesnt matter if we are “playing” or not
<~luna[KM]> exactly, these are called triggers
<selene1123> i agree with you slavelauren
<selene1123> it is in or out of a schece
<slavelauren> we could be driving in His car
<selene1123> *scene
<radiogirl> it can be either for some people
<radiogirl> doesnt take a scene to put me in subspace
<pet_rain> when i’m laying in His lap or at his feet infrount of the couch or its after Hes played with me or used me, sometimes its after i’m punished sometimes just the looks He gives me
<slavelauren> We have a kinda trigger phase that puts me right under
<slavelauren> phrase sorry
<pet_rain> whats that?
<~luna[KM]> slavelauren, is the phrase something you can share with us?
<slavelauren> the simple words of To Serve Him is the greatest gift in Life
<slavelauren> sorry i had to ask
<pet_rain> dont be sorry
* ~luna[KM] smiles, that’s okay and I assumed so
<selene1123> understood
<slavelauren> thanks
<radiogirl> thank you slavelauren
<slavelauren> your welcome
<slavelauren> He says that and im under fast
<~luna[KM]> alright, so how would you describe YOUR subspace to someone who has never experienced it?
<selene1123> my subspace is a state of perfect harmony between Master and i
<slavelauren> wow thats hard, for me its like im there but not there.kinda outside looking in
<slavelauren> not feeling except ectasy
<~luna[KM]> For me, it is a sense of complete peace and happiness, but also a separation from my physical body (the pain if if it play) and a sort of spiritual connection to my Master.
<littlemiss96> the place where nothing else matters but my Master and me
<radiogirl> for me, its when I open myself totally to my Master
<selene1123> i have never felt a physical separation
<radiogirl> communion of souls
<selene1123> the opposite actually – i become very aware of my body and the sensations i feel
<radiogirl> some call the physical separation “flying”
<~luna[KM]> oh I have felt that way as well selene1123
<pet_rain> the only thing thats real is Him, His dominance is a weight i can really FEEL on me it engulfs me surrounds me consumes me and W/we are perfect there is no higher happieness there is nothing else that is real
<~luna[KM]> very beautiful pet_rain, lovely description
<slavelauren> im aware of the sensations but if it is pain or anything negative it does not hurt
<radiogirl> very nicely put pet
<slavelauren> wow pet thats awesome
<selene1123> i love the way you put that pet
<pet_rain> RIGHT i cant feel pain
<pet_rain> thanks
<littlemiss96>are all of you in 24/7 relationships?
<slavelauren> sometimes it gets me through some serious “play” Master is a bit heavy handed lol
<~luna[KM]> I generally can feel the pain, but it’s not painful.
<slavelauren> i am
<selene1123> yes littlemiss
<radiogirl> I am not
<littlemiss96> ok, thanks. i am not either
<~luna[KM]> You are LDR aren’t you radiogirl?
<pet_rain> i think the reason i can’t feel pain is because its negitive and to feel anything negitive would be selfish and i am incapable of being selfish there is only His pleasure
<radiogirl> for me its like…… I am so immersed in the pain that it ceases to exist…
* ~luna[KM] thinks pet_rain is a poet :)
<slavelauren> yes she is
<pet_rain> no i’m not
<pet_rain> (blushes)
<radiogirl> and I know that He immerses himself in it to
<slavelauren> well you are excellent with your words
<pet_rain> thank you
<selene1123> you have a gift for putting feelings into the perfect words
<radiogirl> yes I am in  a LDR, Luna
<slavelauren> radiogirl that is exactly the way Master describes His feelings when we talk about how He feels
<~luna[KM]> Did anyone read the optional pre-reading for tonight?
<radiogirl> yes
<slavelauren> i am sorry i did not
<pet_rain> i read some of it but most of it woulnd’t come up
<littlemiss96> i did
<radiogirl> i always do my homework Luna
<radiogirl> LOL
* ~luna[KM] winks… that’s why it is optional
<selene1123> i skimmed through it during work
<pet_rain> i only got to read about sub drop
<~luna[KM]> In the Mistress Steel essay, she talks about different levels of subspace
<~luna[KM]> and that you can move through the levels smoothly, like climbing a ladder
<pet_rain> yeah i would like to read that
<slavelauren> i have read it before and i its very well put for me
<~luna[KM]> well I can send you a copy pet_rain to your email if it won’t open. Just shoot me a message via the contact page when we are done here to remind me and give me your email.
<~luna[KM]> So, how important is sub space for you?
<selene1123> it is essential for me
<slavelauren> same for me
<radiogirl> same here
<selene1123> if i do not feel that space then i feel like i am not in harmony with Master
<~luna[KM]> I could actually take it or leave it. I love it when I experience it, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not important to my relationship or connection with Master.
<selene1123> and that is simply not an option for me
<slavelauren> very true
<littlemiss96> after hearing from all of you, i think my definition may have been too narrow
<slavelauren> what do you mean littlemiss96
<littlemiss96> well, i think i was thinking that subspace was only that detached euphoria, but listening to you guys, I am realizing that i go there whenever i talk to Master, whether in person, phone, or even text
<selene1123> that’s how i feel
<slavelauren> i can acheive it any time anywhere no matter what the form of communication is
<selene1123> or even when i am not with Master but doing something i know will please him in the future
<~luna[KM]> Not everyone you meet will agree with the definition that it’s a broader definition.
<slavelauren> very true luna
<~luna[KM]> Some will say that the non-play sub space isn’t sub space
<~luna[KM]> It’s more a slave space that is a focus for some relationships
<selene1123> that’s one of the reasons i was confused
<littlemiss96> ehhh..to each his/her own, i think
<slavelauren> for me it is slave space always
<~luna[KM]> Sure, the hope is that you will be able to develop your own definition.
<~luna[KM]> wb pet_rain
<pet_rain> oh i’m sorry it kicked me off
<pet_rain> my Master’s here now
<~luna[KM]> welcome pet_rain’s Master
<slavelauren> welcome Sir
<pet_rain> He’s reading along
<pet_rain> He said thanks
<radiogirl> Welcome Sir
<radiogirl> nice to have you with us
<selene1123> good evening
<~luna[KM]> Let’s focus now on play time
<~luna[KM]> how important is sub space to play time?
<slavelauren> pretty important for me
<selene1123> it depends on what kind of play for me
<selene1123> if it is physical/involves pain, very important
<slavelauren> very true
<littlemiss96> i dont think its possible for me to separate
<pet_rain> i think its very importain because i think i can please Him better while i’m in subspace
<radiogirl> I agree selene
<slavelauren> being in subspace expands my limits alot
<~luna[KM]> I agree with pet_rain that I’m more pliable when in subspace, Master can get me to do things that I would normally hesitate to do when I’m in subspace.
<selene1123> definitely
<radiogirl> Oh yes slavelauren
<radiogirl> thats when you learn how strong you actually are
<~luna[KM]> So, what if you can’t get to subspace? Are there alternatives to experiencing that ‘high’?
<slavelauren> well i dont know about everyone else but i am a slave so i dont have safewords or limits but subspace makes it easier sometimes
<pet_rain> right me too
<radiogirl> well, endorphins come
<radiogirl> and thats my High if i am not in subspace
<slavelauren> i always acheive subspace so i cant answer that
<littlemiss96> i think i do too, slavelauren
<~luna[KM]> I think a pretty darned good orgasm is a great alternative *grins*
<radiogirl> oh yeah luna
<littlemiss96> lol for sure
<selene1123> ditto, luna!
<slavelauren> true
<pet_rain> well… sometimes it doens’t come during sometimes i just feel used, but after its done i guess that feeling of being used and knowing that i made Him happy brings me to sub space
<~luna[KM]> how about emotional release. I know that sometimes when I play I feel emotions just pour out of me and that’s a healing process.
<slavelauren> one little problem with that luna i can only orgasm on command
<slavelauren> so if i dont have permission then that doesnt work for me
<~luna[KM]> sure, then that alternative isn’t good for you.
<slavelauren> for me its all about an emotional release
<pet_rain> i dont think i have emotional releases during play
<selene1123> it has almost nothing to do with physical release for me
<~luna[KM]> Does any of you cry during play/space?
<pet_rain> there is a emotional connetion sometimes
<pet_rain> yes
<pet_rain> i do
<pet_rain>  alot
<selene1123> i haven’t….yet
<radiogirl> oh yes
<littlemiss96> i haven’t yet, but I know I will
<~luna[KM]> How about laugh?
<selene1123> all the time….my Master loves “playful” play
<littlemiss96> oh yes…
<littlemiss96> we laugh togther a lot…and I’ve laughed in orgasm too
<slavelauren> i do both
<~luna[KM]> When I’ve entered space and the pain intensifies I tend to laugh when it hurts
<pet_rain> i’v laughed dureing play but when i’m in space i dont, i’ll smile alot but thats about it
<radiogirl> slavelauren, may I ask a question
<pet_rain> well sometimes i’ll like half laugh half cry its wierd
<littlemiss96> me too, pet_rain
<slavelauren> of course anything?
<radiogirl> how long have you been with your Master?
<radiogirl> im curious about the “come on command”
<slavelauren> over 5 years now
<slavelauren> cumming on command takes alot of practice and patience
<slavelauren> and trial and error
<pet_rain> i’m not allowed to cum without permission but i have trouble cumming on command
<radiogirl> I would like to talk with you about that sometime
<slavelauren> of course when we are finished i will give you my email and yahoo nic i am on alot
<radiogirl> I sent you a PM
<~luna[KM]> Are we ready to move on to Sub Drop?
<radiogirl> with my email
<slavelauren> i am allowed to talk to anyone
<pet_rain> yes
<selene1123> i think i experienced sub drop very badly this weekend
<~luna[KM]> wanna talk about it selene1123?
<littlemiss96> i had my first experience with it last week…awful
<~luna[KM]> I’d like to hear your experiences if you are willing to share them.
<slavelauren> got it radiogirl
<pet_rain> can someone define that for me?
<selene1123> to me, subspace is almost 24/7, but this weekend I completely threw out my neck….could not move, sit up, or talk…much less serve Master
<selene1123> all i wanted to do was cry
<~luna[KM]> Sub Drop is when the endorphins and euphoria leave your body and you feel what I call a crash in mood
<~luna[KM]> For some people this can be very severe and traumatic.
<selene1123> Master had to take care of me and i felt so….useless
<slavelauren> when i experience it is very traumatic
<pet_rain> okay like when you feel like yesterday you were His perfect little tng but today you feel frustrated and all wrong like that?
<~luna[KM]> I have felt that way too selene1123, when I’m sick.
<littlemiss96> i had a really rough time
<slavelauren> have you talk to Him about it?
<littlemiss96> combined with PMS…
<~luna[KM]> When I’m out of commission, he tells me that it’s his turn to take care of his property… his job ya know.
<selene1123> luna, that’s what my Master says….but i still feel so lost
<slavelauren> because Master has never experience subspace or sub drop He has asked me to discuss with Him the feeling that go with each one sub drop more bc He sees subspace in me most of the time
<slavelauren> smae here luna
<~luna[KM]> Did you know that sub drop happens more in committed relationships than in casual or long distance ones?
<selene1123> i can see that
<~luna[KM]> I did a non-academic study with the munch groups I attend and it was overwhelming
<slavelauren> i would have to agree with that
<pet_rain> i can deffently see how
<~luna[KM]> I know what I think as the reason, but why do you think that is the case?
<slavelauren> i think that is more of an emotional attachment in committed relationships
<selene1123> i think it is the level of devotion
<littlemiss96> i think that’s what partially caused mine…i’m realizing my heart is getting involved in this along with my mind and body
<pet_rain> because you are more emotionally connected with them everythings more real in your face everyday
<slavelauren> very tue luna
<slavelauren> true sorry
<~luna[KM]> I think that more casual or separate-lives relationships have less sub drop because of a defense mechanism to protect the person’s emotional state. When in a live-in relationship, you let your guard down more often, allowing for drop.
<littlemiss96> since my relationship is new, I kind of discounted that I would go through sub drop…i was totally unprepared for it
<slavelauren> very true luna
<~luna[KM]> Drop is the same though, the emotional distress, feelings of inadequacy or disbelief that you just went through play activity x, y and z. Or even shock from injuries received, and thoughts on how you can enjoy something like ‘that’.
<radiogirl> Its impossible to be prepared for subdrop
<littlemiss96> Master also had some personal stuff that kept him away from me for a couple of days, and I didn’t know why…in my fragile state, I began to have abandonment issues
<~luna[KM]> What forms of aftercare are available to you when you do drop?
<~luna[KM]> that can totally happen littlemiss96
<slavelauren> yes it can littlemiss
<selene1123> i feel the same way sometimes littlemiss
<littlemiss96> plus I was PMSing…so it was the perfect storm…lol
<slavelauren> Master is really big on aftercare
<radiogirl> lol
<littlemiss96> I talked to Master about it, and he apologized, and has promised to be there for more aftercare
<selene1123> i use my slave journal as aftercare; writing helps me “balance” myself out
<selene1123> plus i’m writing for Master so i feel connected to him
<slavelauren> when i first came to live with Master fulltime i already knew that He leaves every week Monday through Wednesday to see His sub about an hour from here but that first month was horrible abandonment issues galore
<littlemiss96> so do I selene1123…and I send it to Master
<slavelauren> i journal alot
<littlemiss96> i do ok as long as I know what’s going on and why he’s gone…when he says, “talk to you this afternoon” and then he doesn’t…that’s when I freak out
<~luna[KM]> I tend to find that taking a long hot bath or shower helps
<~luna[KM]> and chocolate, lots of chocolate
<littlemiss96> lol chocolate always works
<~luna[KM]> I’ve got some music I like to listen to as well when I’m dropping
<littlemiss96> or I love a day at the beach
<slavelauren> chocolate works very well
<~luna[KM]> Anything else you’d like to talk about related to sub drop?
<slavelauren> i have a meditaion cd that works really well bc it is all about sub drop and it guides you through getting out of it most of the time it works
<~luna[KM]> where did you get a CD like that slavelauren?
<littlemiss96> do y’all find it worse in connection to your cycle?
<selene1123> i’m interested too
<radiogirl> me 2
<littlemiss96> me too
<slavelauren> at a convention i attended a few years ago, i will true to download to mp3 and send it to everyone who would like it
<slavelauren> i have alot of them all different ones
<~luna[KM]> ooooh, that would be way cool! Can you legally share them?
<slavelauren> they help me alot
<radiogirl> I would love that
<slavelauren> i dont see why not
<selene1123> that would be great, slavelauren
<slavelauren> they are not copyrighted
<slavelauren> i just looked
<littlemiss96> should be legal then
<slavelauren> i like helping out anyone who asks especially if it helps them serve their Master better
<radiogirl> I appreciate that
<littlemiss96> thanks so much…should we pm you our email addresses?
<selene1123> thank you

Chat Night Transcript From BDSM and Sex Talk – 8/25/09

Our first chat was a great success. Everyone gave permission to post the transcript and continue the conversation here. I loved every minute of interesting conversation. Read and enjoy!

<~luna[KM]> Alright, let’s get started. If you haven’t figured out, I’m luna. I started the site in January after I got tired of not finding what I wanted in all the sites online. I didn’t need the how to’s, but the whys.
<~luna[KM]> My goal with these chat nights is to share knowledge and information with each other to develop and grow in our submission.
<~luna[KM]> Tonight we are going to talk about BDSM and sex; if they are integral to our sexuality or if they can be separated as well as the whole perception in the community.
<~luna[KM]> In the reading for today we saw some people’s opinions as to whether sex and BDSM were separate things. What do you feel is the right way to explain it for yourself?
<hisowned1> it seemed to me that the gist of the articles–taken as a whole–was that sex is integral to a bdsm relationship….however, most bdsm relationships contain many other dimensions in addition to the sexual
<~luna[KM]> For me, in the beginning sex and BDSM were not the same, I was exploring and playing outside of a committed relationship, casually and did not want sex to be a part of it. I wanted the sensation and not the sexuality of it.
<~luna[KM]> Now that I’m in a relationship, I can not separate the two. BDSM is my sex and so much more.
<pet> i would have to agree with you luna
<hisowned1> most of our relationships probably involve the spiritual, psychological, emotional realms (should i include practical also?), in addition to sexual.  well, as luna has pointed out in some of her articles, there may be differences between solely online relationships and in-person relationships…
<~luna[KM]> Laura Goodwin (the first essay) said that it was absurd to think that sex and BDSM are separate things, that the whole reason we invite BDSM into our lives is for the sex. Now, most of what she is referring is the tactile play aspects of BDSM, but do you agree?
<~luna[KM]> Is BDSM sexual?
<pet> to me its one of many things
<~luna[KM]> You bring up a good point hisowned1. Can you really have a sexual experience online and consider it a BDSM sexual act?
<~luna[KM]> The critics will say that no, you can’t have a BDSM sex act online – that it’s just masochistic fantasy and masturbation.
<hisowned1> i think pet has something to contribute here.  pet, what are the ‘many things’ you refer to?
<hisowned1> …if i may ask…
<pet> would say for myself personally,  the service, the emotional aspect is also important to me
<hisowned1> yes, me too
<~luna[KM]> pet, do you feel that there is too much focus on the sexuality of BDSM when people talk about BDSM?
<pet> sometimes yes
<pet> to me personally there is so much to our lifestyle
<~luna[KM]> There are a lot of levels to the lifestyle, I would like to focus tonight on the physical act of play and it’s association with sex.
<~luna[KM]> When I talk with others that may not be as familiar with BDSM as they can be, I always get the perception that they think BDSM is just kinky sex.
<~luna[KM]> But when we as lifestyle and active participants get together, I see more of a separation between play and sex
<asweetpea123> at this point in my relationship with my Master all aspects interact at different levels.  Depending on the situation will depend on how deeply they react to the different aspects from sex to emotion etc
<~luna[KM]> So, can you play without sexual contact?
<pet> right, by what i have read, some definitely separate play and sex.
<~luna[KM]> sexual contact being genital touching
<radiogirl2009> oh of course
<radiogirl2009> I think so
<pet> i think so
<pet> also
<asweetpea123> yes
<radiogirl2009> my Master can play with me because he lives in my head
<radiogirl2009> my submission is in me
<~luna[KM]> Ok, so if the sensation receptors in your brain say that you are turned on, is it still sex or somehow it’s play?
<~luna[KM]> And if it is different, how do you discern the difference?
<asweetpea123> Wow
<asweetpea123> when you put it that way.
<hisowned1> how are we defining what ‘play’ means?
<radiogirl2009> okay, for me……… sex means a lot of different things
<radiogirl2009> and even though we have sex (phone sex, webcam sex) its in my mind
<~luna[KM]> play would be a set moment in time where two or more people are scening for the intent to experience sensations. This can be impact play, bondage or other forms of non-contact play.
<radiogirl2009> play……… is.. teasing
<asweetpea123> Ok my Master and I can have sex…touching in whatever way…but we can have no contact or “play” time from as far away as a phone or email where direction are given and yet I still feel the intensity as if it were physical.  He still controls me even far away
<radiogirl2009> oh yes
<~luna[KM]> If BDSM is considered part of the sexual arena, why is it not included in more vanilla ideas of sex?
<asweetpea123> ?
<~luna[KM]> If we go on the assumption the BDSM and sex are not separate, why don’t we see more mainstream sexual encounters echo what we do?
<asweetpea123> People are afraid of stereotype…beating abuse dominance have a very negative opinion in the world
<asweetpea123> It is lack of knowledge that keep people from understanding the deep strong positive connection
<pet> yes it does im afraid.  though i do have a friend who is very understanding and supportive.
<asweetpea123> media puts those words in prison/court/negative from an abusive husband/spouse and people stop looking farther…past the end of their nose
<~luna[KM]> So, can we say that BDSM is sensual more than sexual? Since we can have sex without BDSM and have discussed earlier that people can have BDSM without sex?
<~luna[KM]> It is unfortunate that the media has trouble accepting us, but the media is still working through homosexual acceptance, I fear that kink acceptance is further down the list.
<asweetpea123> BDSM is sensual for me.  Very much so.  to be so deeply controlled by someone who wants so desperately to control me…is sensual and loving..
<pet> i feel it is very sensual,  because of the close connection between Dom and sub.
<asweetpea123> I would agree…media has come a long way but they have a long way to go
<~luna[KM]> how about you radiogirl2009? is what you’ve experienced more sensual or sexual?
<pet> yes they do.
<asweetpea123> The Master watches out for you…when he decides on something he has already through for you…he knows you better than you do…how is that for sensual..
* ~luna[KM] smiles. It’s a good analogy asweetpea123
<pet> yes Sir reads me like a book.  sometimes i think he knows me better than i know myself sometimes
<radiogirl2009> well it greatly depends on my perception I guess
<radiogirl2009> Playing (not actually touching)  for me is mainly mental…. and that is extremely sensual
<radiogirl2009> however, when he gets the flogger out…… its pure SEXUAL
<asweetpea123> again it is a mental sensation…even in flogging…anyone can hit you…but a Master who incites this is thinking of you when he does the flogging or allows the flogging to take place…that becomes sensual
<asweetpea123> It is no different than the circle of life or ebb and flow.  one creates the other…without one the other is nto
<asweetpea123> not
<~luna[KM]> Great points all of them.
<~luna[KM]> You can mix sensual and sexual into BDSM, like a cocktail.
<hisowned1> asweetpea, that was beautifully put above—your post about the circle of life and ebb and flow.  lovely.  and true
<asweetpea123> Thank you hisowned1
<~luna[KM]> Now, I’ve been to a few parties and one party I’ve been too, doesn’t allow penetration of any kind. Others do, how does that change the way we could view sex and BDSM?
<asweetpea123> I feel that again if no penetration is allowed that does not matter.  The Master controls the Sensual/Sexual intensity of the situation…
<~luna[KM]> For Master and myself, we prefer to keep our sex private, but we are okay sharing the SM play at parties.
<asweetpea123> your sexual satisfaction is directed by Master no surroundings
<~luna[KM]> It makes for a rather interesting argument when we say that BDSM and sex are the same thing and yet we can fracture it like that for play parties.
<asweetpea123> His Sexual Satisfaction is directed by him
<asweetpea123> LOL yes it does…but a duck is a duck
<pet> i would feel the same way, i would much prefer to keep our sex private

photo by Dano