Are Discipline and Punishment The Same?

Reading across the blogosphere you will encounter these words almost synonymous to each other: Discipline and Punishment. The words are far from the same however some dynamics treat them the same. In fact for the longest time I have used the word punishment when I mean discipline. It’s even possible that Master has used these words interchangeably as well. I’ve done some thinking to try to sort out what these two words mean in our dynamic and how they are employed. I have a preference for clearly defined terms and boundaries so these two words are worth defining.

There is also the camp that believes that punishment (lowercase) is the play form with impact toys or spanking and that Punishment (uppercase) is the correction of bad behavior. I’m going to be referring to the later form in this post. The P/punishment debate can very well take up another post.

As to what I believe discipline is, I’ve now been able to categorize the things that Master does to keep me in line, the smaller corrections and the weekly maintenance with the black book are my discipline. Essentially for us discipline is part of the training. I can’t be a perfect submissive right from the start and part of molding my behavior has to be correcting me when I put a toe out of line. I have to admit that at first he was disciplining me all the time. Learning the rules and not being a smart ass was really hard for me. It’s not second nature yet but I feel that it will get easier.

Discipline comes in all shapes and sizes. For our relationship it’s apology, corner time and cane strokes. I get corner time for most of the infractions that warrant more than my proper apology. I hate corner time. I think what I hate most about it is that I’m not getting any attention. I have to sit and just count the seconds in my head and watch the kitties sit around my feet wondering when I’m going to move so that I can play (unless you’re Max, then you just want my seat). I’m terrified of canes and so when Master directs me to get the cane I almost shiver and my heart gets faster. Its hurts and it scares me. Which is the point.

Punishment though is a different beast. Punishment is for very severe infractions. I consider this to be things that could be deal breakers or relationship-enders. Punishment of this caliber should be rare or not at all. Things that make the dominant decide if punishment is the way to go instead of release are personal. I’ve read many dominant comments on this topic and a lot of them choose release.

The one punishment I’ve been through was really rough. It’s been almost 2 years. I remember it like it were just last week. I thought our relationship was done for. I had broken his trust and I didn’t know how to gain it back. I’m happy to say that I have.

Keeping these things separate and defined for us is good for our continued growth.

What do you say? Are they defined differently for you?

Sub v. Slave: A Second Opinion

This is a guest post by Beth, as she will tell you, she’s a 24/7 slave of 2 years and would like to express what she sees as the differences between sub and slave. If you would like to read Rayne’s opinion, you can do so on this post.

First off I would like to introduce myself. I’m Beth, or as some may know of me as jjsslave on fetlife.com. I’m also jajsslave on Twitter. I am a 24/7 collared slave and have lived with my Master for going on 2 years now. Well, by the time this is posted it will be 2 years. Ive been in the lifestyle for 7 years and have came a long way. I  have learned many lessons along the way, all which have shaped me into what I am today. The biggest lesson I learned early on was during my first encounter with my Master. It was the importance of not telling too much online to others and that you should guard yourself against the preditors out there. There are good guys out there. Ive been lucky enough to find one, however there are many scary people out there.

To me there is quite a difference between being submissive and a slave. I think it would be easier for me to start on the submissive side. In my 7 years in the lifestyle I started out as a sub. I really feel that until the past 2 years I remained a sub.  With that being said, I had more options in life, at least in my mind. A submissive retains the power over themselves and their body. Many are not going to agree with me on this. I don’t feel that discipline, true discipline should be put in place with a sub. ”Play” or “scene” discipline is one thing but actually discipline where corporal punishments, writings and corner times for example are put in place, I feel are completely off base. If a submissive still has power over themselves then how can they really mess up to the point of punishment outside of play. Slaves on the other hand, particularly those who live it 24/7 sometimes need punishment just for the sake of training, being kept in line and as a reminder of their place.

I had considered myself a slave before moving in with Master, yet I don’t think it was until he assigned me to look up the terms submissive and slave that I truly realized the differences. Unfortunately Ive lost that writing, but the idea is still in my mind. Hmm, this is consensual slavery right??? Then why is it that even though the door is there I can’t imagine walking out and never coming back? A slave has one option for the most point. Obey or leave!! Do i have the options of telling Master “no”?? Not if i want to continue to stay with Him. This brings me to another point, limits. Submissives often have soft and hard limits and can enforce them or use them at will. Not saying that is a bad thing, it gives the person that little extra protection over their body and mind. On the other side of things I feel a slave doesn’t quite have the same rights when it comes to limits. I feel a slave should take on the limits of their Master. If a slave has a hard limit well.. i guess that could be discussed and taken into consideration but ultimately the decision lays with the Master on if the slave is allowed to have that limit. Communication is a must.

While these are just a few examples of the thoughts floating around in my head, I feel these are the more important ones.  This is a very heated topic where I don’t feel anyone will ever agree. The bottom line is that there is no one way to live the lifestyle and that goes for submissives and slaves alike. One of the most important qualities anyone in this lifestyle can have is respect.  Respect for others and how they enjoy and live in the BDSM lifestyles. The good news is, those who live this lifestyle are generally accepting of everyone else’s choices on how to live this life.

I would like to thank LunaKM for giving me the opportunity to write this. I look forward to possibly doing more writing in the future as i really enjoyed doing this.

Beth is a 24/7 collared slave and have lived with her Master for going on 2 years now and in the lifestyle for 7 years. You can contact her on FetLife or Twitter.

Post photo by Purple Sea Donkey

Submissive and Slave: A Personal View

This post was written by Rayne. You can follow her twitter for active and interesting conversation.

I’m pretty big on book definitions. So for me, the word “submissive” has always been an adjective describing a personality trait. When I got involved in BDSM, it became, for me, a heading, of sorts, describing a group of people.

Under the heading of submissive, there are three main labels I – and others – use to describe the bottom half of the totem pole in BDSM relationships. Generally speaking, each label delineates a level of submission. How much control the person has given to their dominant. Because there is no set standard (How could there be?) of how much or how little submission one must give to be considered submissive, we instead give the different levels of submission names to aid in communication. A way of getting an idea of how much or how little control the submissive is willing to give up without having to get to know them.

In the grand scheme of things, one is not better than the other, except for the person in question. They’re just different.

Generally speaking, we call someone who is only submissive in the bedroom or at play parties and such a bottom. They are not interested in giving up total control. They enjoy being dominated sexually – or sometimes just being bound and hurt without involving sex at all – but really have no interest in being controlled on a regular basis. This group of submissive people leaves their submission at the door of their play space.

A lot of people start out here. Being the bottom of a scene is often a gateway. A place where people discover deeper, more submissive desires. I was a bottom before I was a sub and sub before slave. A lot of submissive people I know followed that progression. Not everyone, though.

People occasionally shorten “submissive” when specifically discussing this next group to avoid confusion. It’s a running joke, in the community, that a “sub” is a sandwich, and you’ll occasionally hear people talking about wanting roast beef and provolone on theirs. But since the first day M dragged me onto IRC, using “sub” has been my way of making it clear I am talking about this particular level of submission and not submissive people as a whole.

So what’s a sub? That’s where it gets tricky. Because the line between sub and slave is rather fine and blurs a lot. People often use “submissive” and “slave” interchangeably. But they are not the same thing.

A sub is someone who still retains some control, but is in service to someone else. They have the right to say no and walk away at any time. They have a safe word. They have limits. They’re not owned.

An article I read recently described it best when it said “A submissive is a volunteer. A slave is not.”

A slave is owned. That’s probably the only constant. Some slaves have safe words. Some do not. Some slaves have negotiated limits. Some do not. Some slaves have submissive personalities. Some are only submissive with the one who owns them. Some slaves have given up their right to leave, or consented to having it taken from them. Some retain the right to walk out the door whenever they choose.

Legally, we all have that right. Some of us just choose not to acknowledge it.

In my perfect world, a slave is someone without limits or safe words. A slave is someone who opens himself or herself completely to his or her owner. Complete transparency. Total power exchange. He or she doesn’t have a choice.

But in my reality, it’s illegal to own another human being. Some states don’t recognize consent. In the interest of keeping the owner out of prison, the submissive is allowed to negotiate the rules. Even I can’t or don’t always live up to my perfect world. So it doesn’t surprise me that others don’t, can’t or aren’t interested.

Some say the difference between a submissive and a slave has nothing whatever to do with how much control one gives up or how submissive one is. That it’s in one’s actions. In the way the slave obeys without question or hesitation. In the respect in the slave’s voice when he or she speaks with his or her owner. In the way the slave knows what the owner needs almost before the owner does. But I’ve known some submissives to show their dominants more respect than some slaves show their owners.

A submissive is someone who submits willingly, sometimes on a case by case basis, to the will of another. A slave is someone who is wholly controlled and owned by another. That’s really the sum of it.

Rayne is a loving slave with sadistic tendencies and masochistic desires. Chaos incarnate. The girl your mother warned you about.  She writes toy reviews and blogs about being a 24/7 medium protocol slave to her husband Melen at Insatiable Desire (http://www.insatiabledesire.com/), along with four other bloggers involved in the lifestyle.  She also guest write a series that is a basic look at M/s at Eden Cafe (http://www.edencafe.com/) with a number of other authors who write about various sex-positive subjects.

photo by BL1961

Should There Be Clear Definitions to Label Yourself In This Lifestyle?

So, you’ve met submissives and slaves online, their Dominant and Master counterparts but as you get to know them and how they interact you start to see the things they do blurring the lines of what you had believed a submissive was, or that a slave wasn’t supposed to act this way, etc. It brings about quite a difficult and confusing time for novice submissives when they try to put themselves into a box where definition X might not apply to them, but sub-definition for Y does. Then they talk to someone else and neither X nor Y apply to them but some unknown before Z definition.

How do you keep it all straight?

For example, I call myself a submissive but people who have read my blog have called me slave, and also had people at munch groups call me slave. I’m not comfortable with my definition of being a slave so I sit at submissive. Then you have people who read my blog and wonder if I’m submissive at all. The range of personal definitions is that varied.

So should there be a solid set of definitions that people can choose from? Other than the dictionary definitions that is; something lifestyle related that we can point to and say if you fit into a, b and c you are submissive, but if you feel more like d, e and f you are slave. If we had to come up with specific definitions what would be in your list for each label? What traits would you look for to be a submissive trait but not a slave trait?

I read on K’s blog today about her issue with labels and her need to put people under a label in order to relate to them. She brings up a good point about definitions and labels though. In many cases the character traits of one are not mutually exclusive to a specific label. What do you do then? Create a blur zone, of course. In this blur zone are all the things that can apply to both submissive and slave. This blur zone is so large that there is no wonder why novices have such a hard time learning what they are and where they can place themselves.

She asked for a dichotomy map to help her place people, but the problem with a dichotomy chart for submissive and slave tendencies, I think, is that you need a cube instead of a flat map to place people. Not only will people be able to place themselves in the right places, but also the right planes for them.

That’s why I try so hard to have people who read this blog define their own submission, but that submission is right. No one is going to do your submission better than you do. You also can’t expect anyone else to have the same definition as you do.

Applying labels and using those definitions is practically impossible.

What do you think? Should there be clearer definitions for submissive and slave?

photo by Felix Francis

Chat Night Transcript From Sub Space and Sub Drop Talk

<~luna[KM]> Now I’d like to hear from everyone… have you experienced subspace? If you don’t know if you have, it’s okay.
<selene1123> i’m pretty new…so i think i have but am not sure
<slavelauren> i have
<radiogirl> I most definitely have
<pet_rain> i’m not sure  i think i would like a clear definition i’v heard different people desribe it differently
<selene1123> thank you pet_rain!  i am confused about some of the contradicting definitions
* ~luna[KM] smiles
<radiogirl> I think subspace would happen differently for each individual
<~luna[KM]> we will definitely be covering that
<slavelauren> i agree with that radiogirl
<~luna[KM]> I have experienced subspace as well, just so you all know where I’m coming from.
<pet_rain> yes everyone experiences everything differently
<~luna[KM]> welcome littlemiss96
<pet_rain> hi
<selene1123> hello
<slavelauren> hi littlemiss96
<littlemiss96> thanks…hi all
<~luna[KM]> we’ve just started talking about subspace and subdrop so jump right in when you feel comfortable.
<radiogirl> For me, subspace is also what I call my “happy place”
<~luna[KM]> are there other words for it?
<slavelauren> same for me
<~luna[KM]> euphoria?
<selene1123> i think that’s a good word for it
<radiogirl> yes, it is a euphoric place
<littlemiss96> i’m still really new to all this, but I think I got there last week…euphoria
<selene1123> like feeling the need to purr, lol
<~luna[KM]> it can also be a primal place
<radiogirl> but its where I am comfortable, secure in myself and my Master’s love
<~luna[KM]> one where you retreat to animal instincts
<radiogirl> yes
<radiogirl> that too
<radiogirl> :)
<slavelauren> so true
<~luna[KM]> So, as you can see sub space is a number of different things, but we can agree that it’s a happy euphoric sensation or ‘place’
<pet_rain> right like youve been redused down to your core and where you feel most content like there is nothing wrong in the world
<slavelauren> yes
<radiogirl> exactly
<selene1123> that perfect feeling
<slavelauren> oh yeah i like that
<pet_rain> okay then i’v experianced that i’v heard it defined very differently though
<radiogirl> so I have a question for you guys
<radiogirl> How do YOU get there?
<~luna[KM]> It’s different each and every time we play
<~luna[KM]> and I don’t get there everytime
<littlemiss96> sometimes its deeper than others
<selene1123> for me, it is through serving Master….even something as simple as dinner or desert
<radiogirl> yes of course littlemiss
<slavelauren> for me its the sound of Masters voice it doesnt matter if we are “playing” or not
<~luna[KM]> exactly, these are called triggers
<selene1123> i agree with you slavelauren
<selene1123> it is in or out of a schece
<slavelauren> we could be driving in His car
<selene1123> *scene
<radiogirl> it can be either for some people
<radiogirl> doesnt take a scene to put me in subspace
<pet_rain> when i’m laying in His lap or at his feet infrount of the couch or its after Hes played with me or used me, sometimes its after i’m punished sometimes just the looks He gives me
<slavelauren> We have a kinda trigger phase that puts me right under
<slavelauren> phrase sorry
<pet_rain> whats that?
<~luna[KM]> slavelauren, is the phrase something you can share with us?
<slavelauren> the simple words of To Serve Him is the greatest gift in Life
<slavelauren> sorry i had to ask
<pet_rain> dont be sorry
* ~luna[KM] smiles, that’s okay and I assumed so
<selene1123> understood
<slavelauren> thanks
<radiogirl> thank you slavelauren
<slavelauren> your welcome
<slavelauren> He says that and im under fast
<~luna[KM]> alright, so how would you describe YOUR subspace to someone who has never experienced it?
<selene1123> my subspace is a state of perfect harmony between Master and i
<slavelauren> wow thats hard, for me its like im there but not there.kinda outside looking in
<slavelauren> not feeling except ectasy
<~luna[KM]> For me, it is a sense of complete peace and happiness, but also a separation from my physical body (the pain if if it play) and a sort of spiritual connection to my Master.
<littlemiss96> the place where nothing else matters but my Master and me
<radiogirl> for me, its when I open myself totally to my Master
<selene1123> i have never felt a physical separation
<radiogirl> communion of souls
<selene1123> the opposite actually – i become very aware of my body and the sensations i feel
<radiogirl> some call the physical separation “flying”
<~luna[KM]> oh I have felt that way as well selene1123
<pet_rain> the only thing thats real is Him, His dominance is a weight i can really FEEL on me it engulfs me surrounds me consumes me and W/we are perfect there is no higher happieness there is nothing else that is real
<~luna[KM]> very beautiful pet_rain, lovely description
<slavelauren> im aware of the sensations but if it is pain or anything negative it does not hurt
<radiogirl> very nicely put pet
<slavelauren> wow pet thats awesome
<selene1123> i love the way you put that pet
<pet_rain> RIGHT i cant feel pain
<pet_rain> thanks
<littlemiss96>are all of you in 24/7 relationships?
<slavelauren> sometimes it gets me through some serious “play” Master is a bit heavy handed lol
<~luna[KM]> I generally can feel the pain, but it’s not painful.
<slavelauren> i am
<selene1123> yes littlemiss
<radiogirl> I am not
<littlemiss96> ok, thanks. i am not either
<~luna[KM]> You are LDR aren’t you radiogirl?
<pet_rain> i think the reason i can’t feel pain is because its negitive and to feel anything negitive would be selfish and i am incapable of being selfish there is only His pleasure
<radiogirl> for me its like…… I am so immersed in the pain that it ceases to exist…
* ~luna[KM] thinks pet_rain is a poet :)
<slavelauren> yes she is
<pet_rain> no i’m not
<pet_rain> (blushes)
<radiogirl> and I know that He immerses himself in it to
<slavelauren> well you are excellent with your words
<pet_rain> thank you
<selene1123> you have a gift for putting feelings into the perfect words
<radiogirl> yes I am in  a LDR, Luna
<slavelauren> radiogirl that is exactly the way Master describes His feelings when we talk about how He feels
<~luna[KM]> Did anyone read the optional pre-reading for tonight?
<radiogirl> yes
<slavelauren> i am sorry i did not
<pet_rain> i read some of it but most of it woulnd’t come up
<littlemiss96> i did
<radiogirl> i always do my homework Luna
<radiogirl> LOL
* ~luna[KM] winks… that’s why it is optional
<selene1123> i skimmed through it during work
<pet_rain> i only got to read about sub drop
<~luna[KM]> In the Mistress Steel essay, she talks about different levels of subspace
<~luna[KM]> and that you can move through the levels smoothly, like climbing a ladder
<pet_rain> yeah i would like to read that
<slavelauren> i have read it before and i its very well put for me
<~luna[KM]> well I can send you a copy pet_rain to your email if it won’t open. Just shoot me a message via the contact page when we are done here to remind me and give me your email.
<~luna[KM]> So, how important is sub space for you?
<selene1123> it is essential for me
<slavelauren> same for me
<radiogirl> same here
<selene1123> if i do not feel that space then i feel like i am not in harmony with Master
<~luna[KM]> I could actually take it or leave it. I love it when I experience it, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not important to my relationship or connection with Master.
<selene1123> and that is simply not an option for me
<slavelauren> very true
<littlemiss96> after hearing from all of you, i think my definition may have been too narrow
<slavelauren> what do you mean littlemiss96
<littlemiss96> well, i think i was thinking that subspace was only that detached euphoria, but listening to you guys, I am realizing that i go there whenever i talk to Master, whether in person, phone, or even text
<selene1123> that’s how i feel
<slavelauren> i can acheive it any time anywhere no matter what the form of communication is
<selene1123> or even when i am not with Master but doing something i know will please him in the future
<~luna[KM]> Not everyone you meet will agree with the definition that it’s a broader definition.
<slavelauren> very true luna
<~luna[KM]> Some will say that the non-play sub space isn’t sub space
<~luna[KM]> It’s more a slave space that is a focus for some relationships
<selene1123> that’s one of the reasons i was confused
<littlemiss96> ehhh..to each his/her own, i think
<slavelauren> for me it is slave space always
<~luna[KM]> Sure, the hope is that you will be able to develop your own definition.
<~luna[KM]> wb pet_rain
<pet_rain> oh i’m sorry it kicked me off
<pet_rain> my Master’s here now
<~luna[KM]> welcome pet_rain’s Master
<slavelauren> welcome Sir
<pet_rain> He’s reading along
<pet_rain> He said thanks
<radiogirl> Welcome Sir
<radiogirl> nice to have you with us
<selene1123> good evening
<~luna[KM]> Let’s focus now on play time
<~luna[KM]> how important is sub space to play time?
<slavelauren> pretty important for me
<selene1123> it depends on what kind of play for me
<selene1123> if it is physical/involves pain, very important
<slavelauren> very true
<littlemiss96> i dont think its possible for me to separate
<pet_rain> i think its very importain because i think i can please Him better while i’m in subspace
<radiogirl> I agree selene
<slavelauren> being in subspace expands my limits alot
<~luna[KM]> I agree with pet_rain that I’m more pliable when in subspace, Master can get me to do things that I would normally hesitate to do when I’m in subspace.
<selene1123> definitely
<radiogirl> Oh yes slavelauren
<radiogirl> thats when you learn how strong you actually are
<~luna[KM]> So, what if you can’t get to subspace? Are there alternatives to experiencing that ‘high’?
<slavelauren> well i dont know about everyone else but i am a slave so i dont have safewords or limits but subspace makes it easier sometimes
<pet_rain> right me too
<radiogirl> well, endorphins come
<radiogirl> and thats my High if i am not in subspace
<slavelauren> i always acheive subspace so i cant answer that
<littlemiss96> i think i do too, slavelauren
<~luna[KM]> I think a pretty darned good orgasm is a great alternative *grins*
<radiogirl> oh yeah luna
<littlemiss96> lol for sure
<selene1123> ditto, luna!
<slavelauren> true
<pet_rain> well… sometimes it doens’t come during sometimes i just feel used, but after its done i guess that feeling of being used and knowing that i made Him happy brings me to sub space
<~luna[KM]> how about emotional release. I know that sometimes when I play I feel emotions just pour out of me and that’s a healing process.
<slavelauren> one little problem with that luna i can only orgasm on command
<slavelauren> so if i dont have permission then that doesnt work for me
<~luna[KM]> sure, then that alternative isn’t good for you.
<slavelauren> for me its all about an emotional release
<pet_rain> i dont think i have emotional releases during play
<selene1123> it has almost nothing to do with physical release for me
<~luna[KM]> Does any of you cry during play/space?
<pet_rain> there is a emotional connetion sometimes
<pet_rain> yes
<pet_rain> i do
<pet_rain>  alot
<selene1123> i haven’t….yet
<radiogirl> oh yes
<littlemiss96> i haven’t yet, but I know I will
<~luna[KM]> How about laugh?
<selene1123> all the time….my Master loves “playful” play
<littlemiss96> oh yes…
<littlemiss96> we laugh togther a lot…and I’ve laughed in orgasm too
<slavelauren> i do both
<~luna[KM]> When I’ve entered space and the pain intensifies I tend to laugh when it hurts
<pet_rain> i’v laughed dureing play but when i’m in space i dont, i’ll smile alot but thats about it
<radiogirl> slavelauren, may I ask a question
<pet_rain> well sometimes i’ll like half laugh half cry its wierd
<littlemiss96> me too, pet_rain
<slavelauren> of course anything?
<radiogirl> how long have you been with your Master?
<radiogirl> im curious about the “come on command”
<slavelauren> over 5 years now
<slavelauren> cumming on command takes alot of practice and patience
<slavelauren> and trial and error
<pet_rain> i’m not allowed to cum without permission but i have trouble cumming on command
<radiogirl> I would like to talk with you about that sometime
<slavelauren> of course when we are finished i will give you my email and yahoo nic i am on alot
<radiogirl> I sent you a PM
<~luna[KM]> Are we ready to move on to Sub Drop?
<radiogirl> with my email
<slavelauren> i am allowed to talk to anyone
<pet_rain> yes
<selene1123> i think i experienced sub drop very badly this weekend
<~luna[KM]> wanna talk about it selene1123?
<littlemiss96> i had my first experience with it last week…awful
<~luna[KM]> I’d like to hear your experiences if you are willing to share them.
<slavelauren> got it radiogirl
<pet_rain> can someone define that for me?
<selene1123> to me, subspace is almost 24/7, but this weekend I completely threw out my neck….could not move, sit up, or talk…much less serve Master
<selene1123> all i wanted to do was cry
<~luna[KM]> Sub Drop is when the endorphins and euphoria leave your body and you feel what I call a crash in mood
<~luna[KM]> For some people this can be very severe and traumatic.
<selene1123> Master had to take care of me and i felt so….useless
<slavelauren> when i experience it is very traumatic
<pet_rain> okay like when you feel like yesterday you were His perfect little tng but today you feel frustrated and all wrong like that?
<~luna[KM]> I have felt that way too selene1123, when I’m sick.
<littlemiss96> i had a really rough time
<slavelauren> have you talk to Him about it?
<littlemiss96> combined with PMS…
<~luna[KM]> When I’m out of commission, he tells me that it’s his turn to take care of his property… his job ya know.
<selene1123> luna, that’s what my Master says….but i still feel so lost
<slavelauren> because Master has never experience subspace or sub drop He has asked me to discuss with Him the feeling that go with each one sub drop more bc He sees subspace in me most of the time
<slavelauren> smae here luna
<~luna[KM]> Did you know that sub drop happens more in committed relationships than in casual or long distance ones?
<selene1123> i can see that
<~luna[KM]> I did a non-academic study with the munch groups I attend and it was overwhelming
<slavelauren> i would have to agree with that
<pet_rain> i can deffently see how
<~luna[KM]> I know what I think as the reason, but why do you think that is the case?
<slavelauren> i think that is more of an emotional attachment in committed relationships
<selene1123> i think it is the level of devotion
<littlemiss96> i think that’s what partially caused mine…i’m realizing my heart is getting involved in this along with my mind and body
<pet_rain> because you are more emotionally connected with them everythings more real in your face everyday
<slavelauren> very tue luna
<slavelauren> true sorry
<~luna[KM]> I think that more casual or separate-lives relationships have less sub drop because of a defense mechanism to protect the person’s emotional state. When in a live-in relationship, you let your guard down more often, allowing for drop.
<littlemiss96> since my relationship is new, I kind of discounted that I would go through sub drop…i was totally unprepared for it
<slavelauren> very true luna
<~luna[KM]> Drop is the same though, the emotional distress, feelings of inadequacy or disbelief that you just went through play activity x, y and z. Or even shock from injuries received, and thoughts on how you can enjoy something like ‘that’.
<radiogirl> Its impossible to be prepared for subdrop
<littlemiss96> Master also had some personal stuff that kept him away from me for a couple of days, and I didn’t know why…in my fragile state, I began to have abandonment issues
<~luna[KM]> What forms of aftercare are available to you when you do drop?
<~luna[KM]> that can totally happen littlemiss96
<slavelauren> yes it can littlemiss
<selene1123> i feel the same way sometimes littlemiss
<littlemiss96> plus I was PMSing…so it was the perfect storm…lol
<slavelauren> Master is really big on aftercare
<radiogirl> lol
<littlemiss96> I talked to Master about it, and he apologized, and has promised to be there for more aftercare
<selene1123> i use my slave journal as aftercare; writing helps me “balance” myself out
<selene1123> plus i’m writing for Master so i feel connected to him
<slavelauren> when i first came to live with Master fulltime i already knew that He leaves every week Monday through Wednesday to see His sub about an hour from here but that first month was horrible abandonment issues galore
<littlemiss96> so do I selene1123…and I send it to Master
<slavelauren> i journal alot
<littlemiss96> i do ok as long as I know what’s going on and why he’s gone…when he says, “talk to you this afternoon” and then he doesn’t…that’s when I freak out
<~luna[KM]> I tend to find that taking a long hot bath or shower helps
<~luna[KM]> and chocolate, lots of chocolate
<littlemiss96> lol chocolate always works
<~luna[KM]> I’ve got some music I like to listen to as well when I’m dropping
<littlemiss96> or I love a day at the beach
<slavelauren> chocolate works very well
<~luna[KM]> Anything else you’d like to talk about related to sub drop?
<slavelauren> i have a meditaion cd that works really well bc it is all about sub drop and it guides you through getting out of it most of the time it works
<~luna[KM]> where did you get a CD like that slavelauren?
<littlemiss96> do y’all find it worse in connection to your cycle?
<selene1123> i’m interested too
<radiogirl> me 2
<littlemiss96> me too
<slavelauren> at a convention i attended a few years ago, i will true to download to mp3 and send it to everyone who would like it
<slavelauren> i have alot of them all different ones
<~luna[KM]> ooooh, that would be way cool! Can you legally share them?
<slavelauren> they help me alot
<radiogirl> I would love that
<slavelauren> i dont see why not
<selene1123> that would be great, slavelauren
<slavelauren> they are not copyrighted
<slavelauren> i just looked
<littlemiss96> should be legal then
<slavelauren> i like helping out anyone who asks especially if it helps them serve their Master better
<radiogirl> I appreciate that
<littlemiss96> thanks so much…should we pm you our email addresses?
<selene1123> thank you

Why BDSM is Not D/s

This post is by Skylerpet. She’s written several other posts here for Submissive Guide. You can read more of her work on online submission and pet play here.

BDSM and D/s. Some see it as the same, I seem them as two very different things. Here, I plan on explaining the how’s and why’s of my position. I am not seeking to change anyone’s opinion, as you have a right to your own opinion, as I hope you will remember that I do also.

In my opinion BDSM and D/s, while they often go together, are two entirely separate things with a few similarities. This is my opinion for many reasons. When I recently voiced this opinion someone responded with the question: “Do you not see the D/s in BDSM as standing for Dominance and submission?” and in fact, for the most part, i do not. I see BDSM as generally standing for Bondage, Discipline and SadoMasochism. Yes, the D/s in BDSM can and sometimes does stand for Dominance and submission for those who incorporate all of those things in their relationship. However, i do not think it does all the time, as there are many who are involved only in BDSM or D/s.

The primary reason i see this is that i see BDSM being the physical aspects. Bondage, whipping, suspension, and things of that nature. D/s however is the emotional side. The act of emotionally and/or psychologically submitting or Dominating someone. I do not see BDSM and D/s automatically going together.

Submission is emotional and psychological. While many submissives do also enjoy the physical aspects, i do not believe that the physical act of bondage and discipline is required for submission.. I see this in my relationship right now. My relationship is long distance. I am incredibly submissive to my Master, however I have received no whippings or canings from Him, however W/we both do enjoy it, and as such it will be a part of our relationship when W/we are together.

• BDSM is not only hardcore bondage, whippings, canings and scenes. BDSM also includes kinky couples who like some spankings and light bondage in bed. With the exceptions of those things, many of those couples are not D/s. They have no Dominance and submission in their relationship, thus the BDSM and D/s are separate.
• There are also those who are pure masochists or sadists. They enjoy the purely physical act of tying up or being tied and getting beat or doing the beatings. For them, it is the physical act that draws them.
• Also, there are those who are in Dominance and submission relationships that is solely based upon service and consensual slavery. There are many D/s couples out there who have no BDSM in their relationship at all. Just as not all submissives are masochists, not all Dominants are sadists.

If one were to look on informational websites, in glossaries and encyclopedias and such, the definitions and descriptions given of BDSM and D/s also show this difference. Wikipedia specifically states that “Physical contact is not a necessity and it can even be conducted anonymously over the telephone, email or instant messaging system. In other cases it can be intensely physical…” As Wikipedia states, BDSM and D/s can be both separate and conjoined. Also, the glossary at Domsub Info defines the two as separate items with can be separate or conjoined.

Said quite plainly, in my opinion, just because someone goes to a dungeon to get whipped does not automatically make them a consensual slave or submissive. It simply means that they enjoy being whipped. Similarly, just because someone enjoys delivering the whipping does not automatically make them a Dominant. As such, BDSM and D/s are separate things and do not have to go together. They can be enjoyed together or separately. None of the combinations are better or more “real” than another.

A few last words:

• Being submissive or a masochist does not mean you have to be the other.
• Being a sadist or Dominant does not mean you have to be the other.
• Not being one or the other, or being both or perhaps all four does not make you worse or better than the other. It simply makes you you and unique.

Skylerpet is a 24/7 submissive pup in her late 20’s. She has been into pet play since she discovered the D/s lifestyle and can be reached at: requiemskye@yahoo.com for emails and also YIM chat.

What’s the Difference Between a Lifestyler and a Player?

This week’s video is about definitions of a lifestyler and a player.

I received the following question via email the other day and thought I would cover it here in a video post.

I’m in a D/s relationship where we tend to do most of our activities behind closed doors. Outside we are a normal equal couple. Someone called me a player the other day in response to my description of who I am and I was confused. I thought I was a lifstyler. What is the difference between a lifestyler and a player?

There are all sorts of labels that people can wear in this lifestyle. Many of these have definitions that fluctuate and change depending on the situation. These are submissive, slave, real, true, Dominant, Master, and the list goes on. No one can agree on what these labels mean for the community.

This is also case for the terms Lifestyler and Player. Let’s cover the definitions first.

• A player is someone who is a BDSM practitioner. This means they participate in the activities that make up the acronym. They could be rope bondage enthusiasts, sadists and masochists. They could be sensual players or people who just like kinky sex. I personally prefer the term practitioner, but I hear player an awful lot in the online and real groups I frequent. This term also lends itself to those who pretend or seduce others as well. We won’t be covering that area today.
• A lifestyler is someone who participates in the D/s aspect outside the bedroom/dungeon as well as may be a proficient BDSM practitioner as well. Just as people may choose to live a green lifestyle or a poly lifestyle the BDSM lifestyler makes the parts of BDSM and D/s that enrich their lives a part of their everyday in some capacity.

A player is just as qualified to converse about things related to BDSM as a lifestyler. The distinction is based solely on the relationship dynamic status and depth of lifestyle change.

The two definitions are no more or less qualified to be a part of BDSM. As skylerpet will discuss later this month, the two areas can be separate or conjoined. In this aspect I feel that they are joined by a common purpose but separate in action and perception.

Why are the two so hotly debated as to who is real and who is not leads me to my next point. Just as we will never agree what the difference is between a submissive and a slave we can not agree with who is a lifestyler and who is a BDSM practitioner. Sometimes they are the same, other times they are not. I’d like to reach out to you and ask you why do these terms have to be so different and why can’t we agree to have an open mind about someone else?

The reality of who we are as individuals is the terms and definitions we apply to ourselves, not the labels other people give us. That’s why I try to always express what my opinion is in an open minded way. I can’t judge or object to anyone else’s labels based purely on what I think they mean. They need to be based on what that person thinks they mean.

So if I say that I’m a lifestyler it means to me that I practice some form of BDSM and D/s in my everyday life. For others it could mean that they are a Gorean Lifestyle practitioner. Players have a wider variety of definitions and none of them seem to be the same, but they have meaning for those that use them to define what it is they do.

In conclusion, no matter what term is used, we should remain aware that for every person there is a different definition and the difference between them is dependent on those definitions agreeing. You may be a player, you may be a lifestyler but what’s important is how you define those words and yourself.

The Truth About Orgasm Control and Denial

The idea of orgasm control or denial strikes fear in novice submissives. “What do you mean give over my ability to orgasm whenever I want?” Sure you could think of it that way, but in terms of your submission it could mean so much more. Let me start with the basic definitions.

Orgasm Control: When a Dominant takes over the right to a submissive’s orgasms. This can be from not allowing the submissive to come without permission to requiring that all orgasms be given by the Dominant. Many other variations also exist.

Orgasm Denial: This is much like a game to some Dominants. An activity where a submissive is brought to the brink of orgasm and then denied the permission to orgasm. Many times this also means the cessation of contact. It can be done occasionally during play or be a long term modification to that submissive’s rules.

The truth is that not all Dominants enjoy controlling a submissive’s orgasms and it is more likely seen in Female Dominant relationships. I don’t know the reason for this, nor do I have any statistics but only what I’ve seen and read. My Master is more into control than denial. He likes to know when I’m nearing orgasm. It’s  a power and pleasure thing.

An interesting training option for orgasm control is Come on Command training. It’s a form of hypnotic suggestion that can and does work. Then the Dominant totally owns your orgasms because you can’t control them yourself. A trigger word, phrase or touch sets it off.

When it comes to your submission, offering over your sexuality in this way can be very humbling. An orgasm can be a lot of things to people. It can be stress relief, pleasure, connection or even just private time. Giving over your orgasms to someone else to control is part of ultimate surrender.

What are your thoughts on orgasm control? Is it something that is a part of your relationship?

photo by Driving in Heels

What is a Play Party?

When you enter the local BDSM community one of the events you may be exposed to is a play party. A play party is a essentially a party were BDSM play can occur. Groups hold parties as a way to learn and educate on safe play methods, chat about topics and generally hang around.

Parties usually have you sign a consent form saying you are aware of what’s going on, waive any obligation of the homeowner for any injury and confirming you are old enough to be there (18 or 21 depending on the group). Smaller parties usually bring snacks to share. Alcohol may or may not be allowed. I know that most will not allow you to play if you are drinking.

There are two types of parties. Public parties and private parties. These can be very different from each other. Public parties are generally open to all group members. I’ve never seen alcohol allowed at these parties. Edgier and messier play is usually not allowed. Sexual play can be not allowed. All public parties I’ve been too have restricted play and not allowed any penetration at all. Private parties are a different beast. Since they are held in private homes and run by the homeowner and not the group they can set their own rules. Sex may be allowed, alcohol may be allowed. Different edgier play may be allowed. It’s all up to the person hosting the party.

Learning about play parties may be intimidating at first but they don’t have to be. If you wonder, you can ask what the rules of the party are before attending. It may help you relax a bit when it comes to your first one. Attending a play party does not obligate you to play. Many of the parties I’ve been to have included people there just to watch, BDSM chat and enjoy the other party aspects of food, drink and conversation. You do not have to dress in fetish attire at a party.

Now that you know what a play party is, do you have any specific questions you’d like me to cover?

photo credit by Pink Sherbet Photography

Handling Guilt from Mistakes and Punishment

Everyone at one time or another is going to go through moments of guilt. Submissives may have added self-guilt when you break a rule, or upset your Dominant. These things are going to happen as you develop and grow in your role and your life. It’s hard to believe but no one is perfect.

What is guilt?

• Feeling of responsibility for negative circumstances that have befallen yourself or others.
• Feeling of regret for your real or imagined misdeeds, both past and present.
• Sense of remorse for thoughts, feelings or attitudes that were or are negative, uncomplimentary or non-accepting concerning yourself or others.
• Feeling of obligation for not pleasing, not helping or not placating another.
• Feeling of bewilderment and lack of balance for not responding to a situation in your typical, stereotype manner.
• Feeling of loss and shame for not having done or said something to someone who is no longer available to you.
• Accepting of responsibility for someone else’s misfortune or problem because it bothers you to see that person suffer.
• Motivator to amend all real or perceived wrongs.
• Strong moral sense of right and wrong that inhibits you from choosing a “wrong” course of action; however, you assign your own definitions to the words.
• Driving force or mask behind which irrational beliefs hide.

The First Step

The first step to resolving guilt is recognizing guilt. It may seem a stupid step but guilt is stealthy. It comes in the middle of the night and takes up residence, even without our noticing it.

I remember my first really bad mistake with my Master. Even after the punishment was over, I wasn’t done punishing myself. He had moved on and I continued to mope around living in the idea that I had displeased him. I didn’t realize it was guilt though. I just thought I was feeling bad for being bad. I let it get so bad that I couldn’t enjoy the play and sex that we had later on. I was still stuck on the mistake I had made.

Answer the following questions in a journal.

a. What problem is currently troubling me?
b. Who is responsible for the problem?
c. Whose problem is it, really?
d. What did I do to make this problem worse for myself?
e. How much guilt do I feel about this problem?
f. How much does the guilt I experience exaggerate or exacerbate my problem?
g. If I felt no more guilt what would my problem look like then?

This recognition could be enough to drop the self-flagellation. If it doesn’t, at the very least it gives us permission to heal, to take the next step and let go of the pain.

Let Go of the Pain

Welcome the pain in, accept the feelings you are having and let go of the shame associated with it. Feel the sorrow without acting on it. Our emotions are fluid and if we can just allow them to happen they will ease. And yet we fight it, deny it, pretend it doesn’t exist – and that keeps us blocked, weighs us down.

In your questions answered above, question ‘g’ should give you an opening into what the real problem is. This could help you see what is blocking you from resolving the problem.

Could it be that you haven’t been punished for the mistake or had it recognized by your Dominant as an issue? Many times guilt can make the punishment work harder than it needs to, it can take a small mistake and make it a huge one. Allow your Dominant to know what you are feeling and release the responsibility of that mistake.

Punishment is a good way to resolve not only the problem but the guilt involved. I know on many occasions I asked to be punished for something I did that he didn’t consider punish-worthy just because I had a lot of guilt behind it. The punishment was a way of purifying my emotions. It is possible that you are unconciously asking for resolution to come from someone else.

Affirmations

Lastly, make sure you affirm that you are good. You deserve to have the problem resolved, you deserve to treat yourself right and you deserve to be treated well. Meditate on the corrected behavior and find a way to prevent it from happening again. Atone for the mistake in a positive way and move on from the guilt.

photo credit by Maigh

Why the Word ‘Training’ Confuses Novices

The word ‘training’ is a stumbling block for many novices and experienced submissives alike. The reason for this is that so many define training as the organized learning of behavior and activities in structured sessions or steps and that once complete, your training is complete. Let’s dispel that myth right now. Submissive and slave training is not set up this way. It is far far different.

When you enter into a relationship with a Dominant it is very likely that the word training will come into it in a fashion like this;

1. I will train you to serve me.
2. You will undergo slave training.
3. Have you had any training?

First let’s discuss what the word ‘training’ really means in a D/s dynamic setting. When you undergo training, what is really meant is that you are learning the mannerisms, behavior, attitude and activities that will please that Dominant. You never finish your training. Once you have learned the basics of what they wish from you, you can be sure that there will be advanced technique and finally anticipatory service. That’s right, training you do yourself to make sure you can provide for your Master’s needs before they appear to need them! There are so many levels of training, and that’s the beauty of it. You never stop learning.

If you leave one relationship and enter into another you should be prepared to unlearn some of the training you underwent with a previous Dominant. This is because not all Dominants like the same behaviors. Training is not universal, it is specialized and unique to each relationship. If a Dominant asks if you have been trained they really aren’t looking for a yes or no answer, they want specifics so that they know what they may want to use or to deprogram.

Once we learn with the word ‘training’ really means for us, then we can understand the context for which it is used in a BDSM situation. ~melly had a really good comment on another post here at Submissive Guide about training. Here is an excerpt. I recommend you go read the whole thing!

training isn’t final. it’s never-ending. and if someone tells me (upon contacting me as a domina, which i also am) “i’ve been trained” my first response is, “not to me, you haven’t.” i don’t want ANYONE to come into a relationship with ME thinking that what they learned in a previous relationship makes them more desirable, or that what they learned is even going to be preferable! and i certainly don’t want anyone thinking that prior “training” is required for them to be a perfectly good submissive or serviceperson.

What do you have to say about training? What is training to you?

4 Things to Look for in a Mentor

There are mentors in every area of life and situation. In BDSM it is sometimes recommended to newbies to pick up a mentor, but are never given the tools to find a mentor that is right for them. I know that when I first started out there were good people to be around and not so great people that left their mark on me. I do wish that people had lead me to learn what a mentor is and how to go about finding one that is right for me.

First, a mentor isn’t just a friend that you can talk to, although they could start out that way. A mentor is someone that you can get advice from, learn from and feel close to in a submissive context. They exist to help you learn who you are and what to expect in different lifestyle situations you may encounter as you grow in confidence and submission. A mentor is not a trainer and should not be directly involved in any physical training that you undergo. You should never have an intimate physical relationship with your mentor.

Let’s take a real world example: Big Brothers and Big Sisters. These volunteers are mentors for needy children all over the nation. They become friends and confidents for the kids involved and some go on to be close to their little brothers/sisters well into adult hood. They strengthen the child’s confidence and provide them an outlet to learn and grow without the stress of parents influence. It’s all healthy and beneficial for both parties.

A BDSM mentor should be similar. There are a few things I’d like you to look for the next time you seek out a mentor for your life. Keep them in mind the next time you approach someone and you may be able to find the person that can guide you.

1. Are their beliefs and definitions similar to yours?

You want to find a mentor that has the same definitions of common terms in BDSM. If they feel that a submissive and a slave are the same thing, and you don’t then they won’t be compatible with you when you bring up topics along that thread of thought. Treat your first few conversations as an interview. Ask them how they came into BDSM, what they think about safewords and relationships and those all important personal terms. If they mesh well with what you think then keep going. This person could be a good mentor for you.

If you are so new that you don’t know what those personal definitions mean to you, then take on what is known as an open mentor. This is someone that is availabe for new people to learn for themselves and helps guide you into your own definitions so that you can find a more targeted mentor later on if you choose to. I consider myself an open mentor and want to help you find yourself before you key into the specifics of your new life as a submissive. I can do focused mentoring, but prefer to make sure your personal beliefs and definitions are solidified first.

2. Are they open to letting you talk or do they force a lot of questions at you?

A good mentor is going to allow for silence in conversation so that you can think things through and talk about what you want to talk about. Mentors know when to point questions at you that will help you think, but keep the conversation flowing the way that is most beneficial to you, the mentee, not the mentor. You should be able to pick up this trait from the interview phase.

3. Are they professional yet comfortable to be around?

When you first meet someone or talk to someone that is considering being your mentor, are they professional in manner? You should feel comfortable around them relatively easily and feel free to talk about whatever is on your mind. If you feel uncomfortable or their questions are far more private than your relationship allows, it’s a warning sign that they are not the mentor for you. A mentor’s job is to make a novice comfortable with what they are experiencing and who they are, if that can’t happen in the interview phase it may not happen at all.

4. Do they appear to know what they are talking about?

Mentors are not going to know everything, but they are going to be well versed in a lot of aspects that novices come to them with questions about. If your mentor gives you the impression that they don’t know a whole lot about what you need to talk about, it may be best to seek out someone else. Great mentors will be prepared for all questions, even if it means they need to research and learn before they can give you quality advice. Someone not willing to work for you as well as with you isn’t really taking your growth strongly.

Now there are a lot of other things to look for in a mentor, but for now; take these thoughts and figure out if a mentor would be someone you want in your current situation. If it is, start seeking them. Interview them before you start pouring your thoughts to them. Get to know them as a person and as a submissive. Feel comfortable with them and don’t let them lead the thoughts, they are there for your growth. Continue to learn and your submission will develop.

Do you have questions you’d like me to answer? Let me know in the comments or the contact form. If you want to remain anonymous, just make your name ‘Anon’ or something similar.

photo by Forty Two

The Differences Between Bottom, Masochist, Submissive and Slave

As a point of personal opinion I’d like to define the differences between very basic terms so that there is no confusion as to who I am referring to when I mention either of these terms. I write this guide in my perspective and provide my mentorship and guidance with these terms clearly defined for me. I welcome varying viewpoints in the comments so please feel free to disagree civilly and provide your own view.

There are several other names that can be ‘classed’ for the submissive role in a relationship. The ones I’m covering here are the basics. I am well aware of toys, pets, sluts, servants and many many other names. Please do not feel that I am not leaving you out, but for the sake of clarity and simplicity I am covering only Bottom, Masochist, Submissive and Slave.

Bottom

A bottom is the lower role within a play session. Generally the person does not submit outside of the agreed upon time that both parties are enjoying the physical aspects of play. Bottoms have more control over what happens in the scene than other submissive types.

Masochist

A masochist is someone who likes to receive pain for pleasure. They can be the bottom in a scene but the reason I gave it a separate designation is that there are Dominant roles that are also masochist.

Submissive

A submissive is someone that submits in a relationship either part of full-time. This can involve only in the bedroom play all the way to live-in service. A submissive generally submits only to those they are in a D/s relationship with and are respectful of others outside of it. A submissive has roles and rules and structure to guide their interactions with their Dominant and with others. Most of the time they still hold a veto card called the safeword.

Slave

A slave is a separate form of submissive. They hold no limits other than what their Masters give them. They can not refuse service to their Dominant. The argument has been going on since the beginning of time about the real differences and so I’d like to set up right here what I believe so that you can understand where I am coming from when discussions happen on this site. A slave is on a deeper more intense level of service than any submissive could work up to. If someone says they were submissive and became a slave, it is because they were always a slave and are now finally identifying as that. Becoming a slave is re-identifying yourself, not just a progression but an intensification of submission.

Feel free to share your thoughts in the comments! What name to do you rest well under?

photo credit honeyjew