Chat Night Transcript for Speaking Submissively

This chat was held on December 2nd, 2009.

~lunaKM> So tonight I wanted to talk about speech and how the way we communicate can impact our submission.

Nia> tonight’s topic really struck a chord with me

angel> same here

~lunaKM> I’ve been doing a bit of non-scientific research of my own when I am out and about and am appalled at the way we talk to each other anymore.

~lunaKM> It’s like the care and respect for strangers no longer exists.

~lunaKM> But furthermore, how we talk to our family has also gone downhill.

~lunaKM> We can take our submissive nature (whether learned or natural) and use it to bring back grace and charm to conversation.

~lunaKM> You can feel free to chime in any time thoughts pop into your head, this is an open discussion.

angel> :)

angel> i didn’t want to interrupt

Nia> ty, luna

angel> i agree with you. i’ve notice how even friends in public speak to one another…

~lunaKM> I’d like to touch on gossiping, vulgarities, person bashing and docile speech with your partner

Nia> i concur…observing my and other’s speech at work shames me

angel> my Sir always tells me that you can speak about anything, but it’s how it’s presented that makes the difference

~lunaKM> Exactly and we can cover that first since you brought it up.

~lunaKM> What’s the difference between these to requests:

~lunaKM> a. I’m going to the store Sir.

~lunaKM> b. May I go to the store Sir?

angel> b is a request. a is telling/more aggressive

Nia> i see (a) as information and (b) as a request for permission

~lunaKM> You are both correct.

Nia> i think (a) would be appropriate only as a response to a question from my Mama as to where I am going?

~lunaKM> a was the more aggressive way to voice your need to go to the store.

angel> yes…i also like Nia’s (a) too :)

~lunaKM> :)

angel> i’ll have to admit, though, sometimes it’s hard

~lunaKM> With just a slight change we can turn our requests into questions or suggestions. Words that still give your Dominant the upper hand.

Nia> yes, i agree

~lunaKM> It’s totally hard, I struggle with it all the time.

angel> oh, good. it’s not just me

Nia> i have been away from my Mama for a year…we just got back together a few weeks ago and the transition is harder than i thought

angel> i’m in the same boat with you Nia. my relationship is long distance and i fall out of it at times

angel> the speech, i mean

~lunaKM> Ok, how about these two phrases…(I’m making them up as I go)

~lunaKM> a. The house needs to be repainted.

~lunaKM> b. I’m going to paint the house.

Nia> (a) is definitely more passive in tone

angel> (a) gives the Dominant a chance to respond either yes or no. (b) takes that way

Nia> however, (b) does mean that i am taking responsibility for this chore

~lunaKM> A allows a dialog to be opened up and the Dominant to make decisions.

~lunaKM> If it is your responsiblity to maintain the outside of the house, sure it might be okay, but a cost incurred for doing so may not be.

Nia> (b) does take the risk of offending your Domme

~lunaKM> It sure does

angel> i agree

~lunaKM> Speaking passively is a safer route to take when talking directly to your Dominant.

~lunaKM> Of course it’s something that comes naturally.

Nia> do you feel that it would be the same at home as in public?

~lunaKM> Nia, do you mean in conversations with your Dominant or with everyone?

Nia> with everyone, my Mama and i work together

~lunaKM> There are always occasions where passive speech just will not work

~lunaKM> Times where authority or responsibility is necessary to claim in order to make your point. But in a relationship where your submission is on display, it’s better to be subordinant in speech as well as deed.

~lunaKM> And of course this won’t work for everyone in every relationship.

angel> i think it’s the Dominant who sets the tone as well. sometimes He/She will allow you to take more verbal control of a situation. but i agree in a D/s setting it’s safer to be softer in speech

~lunaKM> My Master hates it when I say, “Whatever you’d like” (being passive) He wants to know my opinion before making decisions and giving him no options frustrates the living daylights out of him.

Nia> i am a switch and also have a sub boi, so i have to change up several times a day

angel> that’s interesting Nia. is your boi with you while you are with your Domme?

Nia> “whatever you like” drives me crazy too, i try to make suggestions, but leave it up to my Mama to set my priorities each day

Nia> so i want to learn how to keep things transparent with my speech, to emphasize my status with each of them in a non-violent manner

angel> i imagine that it is tough to switch verbal gears in that situation. i find it hard to do coming from work :) i try to stop and think of who i am speaking to (my Sir) before responding.

~lunaKM> So you could get really good with switching from passive to active speech. Set it up to an artform!

Nia> and i have 2 teenage daughters who are finding themselves…menopause on top of all of that! whew!

~lunaKM> lol, quite a handful

angel> lol..tough all the way around

~lunaKM> So, how about we move in to gossiping

~lunaKM> What do you feel about gossip?

angel> it’s a fine line between gossiping and sharing

Nia> it’s funny that when my co-workers are gossiping and i’m not, they seem to feel threatened…that i think i’m better than them by refusing to join the conversation

~lunaKM> I think a lot of gossiping is unrequested information about someone else. I used to be a huge gossip girl.

Nia> but i feel that gossip is usually more about the person who is gossiping

~lunaKM> I’d term that as bragging Nia

angel> how did you stop yourself from gossiping, luna?

Nia> not really, i don’t think that i am better than them…they just think that

Nia> yes, how did you stop, luna?

~lunaKM> Well, It wasn’t easy really. I decided that if the information wasn’t about me, that I had no right to share it.

angel> didn’t you feel like you would explode?

angel> :)

~lunaKM> So no matter how badly I wanted to talk about what happened at the party, etc, if it wasn’t me then it wasn’t my story.

Nia> true that

~lunaKM> At first I did feel that way; then I realized that I was not showing myself in a good light if I could simply talk about everyone else without a care for their thoughts.

angel> hmmm…makes perfect sense.

~lunaKM> I now get so many people wanting to share themselves with me because they know I will guard their trust

Nia> how do you keep from getting drawn into the gossip of others?

~lunaKM> And that really is more important.

~lunaKM> Well, I tend to shut gossip down pretty fast. I just tell them that I won’t talk about people that aren’t part of the conversation since we could be getting the facts wrong.

Nia> excellent point and idea

angel> yes, that is a good statement to use-it’s not harsh but puts a spin on it that others may not get the facts right either

~lunaKM> I’ve had to counter that once when someone kept going and asked them why they felt the need to talk about something that could hurt someone else’s reputation/feelings.

~lunaKM> I’ve wanted to say, ‘Is your life really that boring that we have to talk about other people?’

Nia> there are always 2 sides to every story…sometimes more

~lunaKM smirks

Nia> bravo

angel> :)

~lunaKM> I mean gossip is meant to puff up the person gossiping and tear down the person they are talking about, is it not?

Nia> there is so much that i can share about myself and listening to others sharing about themselves…why bring 3rd parties into it?

~lunaKM> So why do they need that inflated ego?

angel> good points

Nia> cursing, or as you called it “vulgarities”, is a character defect i am really struggling with now

Nia> any advice?

~lunaKM> Well, don’t laugh but I make up words instead of using curse words.

~lunaKM> So Jesus Christ has always been jimminey cricket

angel> i have to admit, the only time i do curse is during “relations”. i guess that’s not good either

angel> lol..cute luna

~lunaKM> lol, I can curse all I want during play/sex… it’s a turn on for both of us

Nia> lol…sorry i had to laugh :)

~lunaKM> That’s okay, sometimes Master repeats the word and I realize just how silly it sounds, but it keeps me from getting in trouble for cursing

Nia> for me it more about controlling my speech when i am angry/frustrated…the words just jump out before i can edit them

~lunaKM> Ah well that’s just as hard.

~lunaKM> The only thing for that is tempering…. mental counting before expressing your anger or frustration.

~lunaKM> It’s not something I’m good at yet (thus the fake curse words)

Nia> my Mama just gives a look, and i feel so ashamed

angel> good advice. taking a deep breath. think jimminey cricket

~lunaKM> lol

Nia> hehe

~lunaKM> the one that Master hates is when he says Son of a.. and I finish it with beehive!

angel> LOL

Nia> my youngest daughter charges me a quarter, fifty cents on sundays…i think i’ve paid for her college tuition this year

~lunaKM> that’s a good incentive if it makes a difference, although if you’ve paid tuition then it must not be so good.

angel> lol…money usually works. at least it benefits someone

Nia> well, i yell a lot during football games

Nia> but seriously, i realize how verbally abusive i can be, and want to change

~lunaKM> This is something that you can work on with your Dominant if you ask for help.

angel> maybe if you picture the look from your Mama before you say it, it will help you to cut down on it.

~lunaKM> Of course it’s going to be hard, but if you want to change and it’s a positive thing I don’t see why she wouldn’t help.

Nia> wow, i’ve never even asked for her help….thanks for the suggestions angel & luna

angel> :)

~lunaKM smiles. Sometimes it take someone else to point out the obvious.

~lunaKM> Are we ready for the last point I want to cover tonight?

angel> sure

Nia> yes

~lunaKM> I’ve seen this a lot on online forums and communities

~lunaKM> person/dominant bashing

Nia> ah, i’ve seen this a lot too

~lunaKM> In generalities it’s when someone says that someone isn’t a good Dominant based on one sided conversation, or that you aren’t a true submissive because of x, y and z. Essentially bashing teh person without all the facts.

~lunaKM> In an online community it is almost impossible to know exactly what is going on with someone when they write just as soon as they experience hurt or anger or fear. That isn’t the time to write, but so many do and it starts damaging the reputation of someone else.

angel> i’ve seen that a lot too

Nia> i understand the need to vent, but damaging the reputation of your Dominant isn’t going to help anything

~lunaKM> I tend to steer clear of these sorts of threads except to say that we don’t know the other person’s side or to recommend that the person reflect on the issue after the intense feelings have faded and they may see it in another light.

angel> good point, Nia. sometimes you do need to vent and for some, the online community is all they have. but, maybe it should be with a online friend and not a thread

angel> i wish everyone responded that way, luna :)

Nia> yes, being discrete should come first

Nia> or i wish that they could relate just their side without all of the damaging details (Dominant’s name, etc.)

~lunaKM> I agree

Nia> a saying in recovery programs is “if i am not the problem, there is no solution”

~lunaKM> I think that in those situations they aren’t seeing what THEY did wrong, only what is bothering them from the other person.

angel> exactly

~lunaKM> heh, that’s just about what I said

Nia> yeah, all i read in those posts is an invitation to a pity party

~lunaKM> no kidding and I never accept those invites.

angel> same here

~lunaKM> They are usually closed off to advice that doesn’t support their anger or frustration either.

angel> never thought of it that way, but that’s true

___

Do you have anything else to add? What are your thoughts?

photo by katie teqtmeyer

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