So, you’ve met submissives and slaves online, their Dominant and Master counterparts but as you get to know them and how they interact you start to see the things they do blurring the lines of what you had believed a submissive was, or that a slave wasn’t supposed to act this way, etc. It brings about quite a difficult and confusing time for novice submissives when they try to put themselves into a box where definition X might not apply to them, but sub-definition for Y does. Then they talk to someone else and neither X nor Y apply to them but some unknown before Z definition.
How do you keep it all straight?
For example, I call myself a submissive but people who have read my blog have called me slave, and also had people at munch groups call me slave. I’m not comfortable with my definition of being a slave so I sit at submissive. Then you have people who read my blog and wonder if I’m submissive at all. The range of personal definitions is that varied.
So should there be a solid set of definitions that people can choose from? Other than the dictionary definitions that is; something lifestyle related that we can point to and say if you fit into a, b and c you are submissive, but if you feel more like d, e and f you are slave. If we had to come up with specific definitions what would be in your list for each label? What traits would you look for to be a submissive trait but not a slave trait?
I read on K’s blog today about her issue with labels and her need to put people under a label in order to relate to them. She brings up a good point about definitions and labels though. In many cases the character traits of one are not mutually exclusive to a specific label. What do you do then? Create a blur zone, of course. In this blur zone are all the things that can apply to both submissive and slave. This blur zone is so large that there is no wonder why novices have such a hard time learning what they are and where they can place themselves.
She asked for a dichotomy map to help her place people, but the problem with a dichotomy chart for submissive and slave tendencies, I think, is that you need a cube instead of a flat map to place people. Not only will people be able to place themselves in the right places, but also the right planes for them.
That’s why I try so hard to have people who read this blog define their own submission, but that submission is right. No one is going to do your submission better than you do. You also can’t expect anyone else to have the same definition as you do.
Applying labels and using those definitions is practically impossible.
What do you think? Should there be clearer definitions for submissive and slave?
photo by Felix Francis
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My name is lunaKM and I’m a full-time submissive in a D/s relationship. I am webslut to 
I created my own label and I have never found another person in the lifestyle using it.
Could I ask what that label is?
I don´t believe in labels. Every person is unique, and every relationship is unique. There is only one person who decides what I am – my Master. It depends on His understanding and His mood weather I am pet, slave or slut. Submissive for me is the “label” for every combination of needs that might be there. To discover what I am, what my way of serving and pleasing is, finding out what pleases my Master is what matters, not what others would call it.
Ana I agree with you completely. Labels do nothing but limit our ability to understand each other. I am what I am needed to be at that moment in time. I have so many hats its not even funny. Come to my house when I am dealing with the children or training our two large breed dogs, and you would never think I was a submissive. But, if you were to be here when my Dom was here, you might begin to wonder exactly what we are. What we are varies day to day based upon his mood. He is a huge fan of the Gorean way of life, but Im not cut out for it on a day to day bases. So, its something we play at when hes in the mood and Im feeling expecially submissive. But, your just as likely to find me standing toe to to with him, glaring up at him as I stamp my foot and tell him how unfair hes being before storming off to our room, leaving him chuckling behind me. He enjoys my different moods as long as i can match them to his mood. We have learned to read each other well. But to try and put us in a box would be impossible.
Oh, man – what a post to read while I’m deep in the middle of my temporal identity reading for metaphysics class. In that frame of mind, I’d have to say that labels are transitory, temporary descriptions for states of being or current interests, subject to change and sensitive to both desire and context. In addition, states can overlap, in that one can feel submissive while topping or dominant while bottoming, depending upon the dynamic between partners.
Sunshine Love´s last blog ..Feel the Love on FriendFeed today
That makes sense since I’ve had people tell me that they’ve gone from submissive to slave. Perhaps it’s just a transitional thing, you change your definition so that it fits you.
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i like lables, without lable a trip to wal-mart would take much much longer.i like knowing when i’m talking to a sub that subs are not like me and have limits they are different. then again i agree that you can’t fit everyone into a catagory, take a slave for example, i have encountered SOO many different people who define slavery TOTALY differently. there are 24/7 tpe, there are c/nc there are o/p… the list continues. but then again its hard to put a lable on something as complex as a relationship
thanks for the conversation. am new to this and had a conversation w/Master re: sub vs slave. It does seem to boil down to how the Dom chooses to define it.
Even if we *could* come up with clear definitions for the labels, there’s no way we could herd the cats into all agreeing to use them ;->
I agree that they are largely useless, except as very broad constructs with which to *start* a conversation. *No* person or relationship can be reduced just to a label; we are all much too complex. The only way to really find out what another person is or likes is to sit down and have a detailed conversation with them, regardless of what they call themselves.
My ex, for example, said he wanted a slave, but I couldn’t be what *I* thought of as a slave. When I got him to define what *he* meant by it, though, it turned out to be exactly what I wanted and already felt for him (basically just what I thought of as garden variety submission on a long leash, as well as love and devotion to him), so it was easy to promise him I could do that for him.
Unfortunately, he went on to feel very threatened as I turned further and further away from a need to use any specific label to describe my own self. He somehow thought that I *felt* less submissive just because I wouldn’t define myself *exclusively* that way, because I went into a lot more detail about the specifics of how it is for me, which include things that don’t necessarily typically fall under the “submissive” umbrella. Even when he was happy with what was actually going on in the relationship, he seemed to be upset that I wouldn’t use the label, and seemed to believe that the use of it actually meant something that the descriptions and what actually went on did .
kinkylittlegirl´s last blog ..Dominants Coming Through on Their Word
We are human. We communicate. We need labels to find some kind of starting point for exchanging ideas. Every word in the dictionary is a “label”. Just as in BDSM (in itself a label for a very complex set of activities), most words in the dictionary have multiple meanings, but, under context we can find our reference, our starting point. If someone were to ask “What is your favorite color?” would you say “blue” even if it is actually one of the myriad variations of blue? Once the reference or starting point is identified and if the thought provokes further discussion then the fact that your favorite color is actually ?????? can be discussed or examined.
If someone were to ask me “What role to do you assume in BDSM?” i would answer “submissive”, “slave” or “property” depending on the person i was speaking to and my perception of where their level of understanding might be. If you could sense that someone didn’t speak english very well, you would consciously pick words that they might know, or even try to connect using what little you may know of their language. i wouldn’t be offended, i would be attempting communication.
j_jeffries (baby-j on Fetlife)