The Challenges of Being Kajira in Today’s Society

Comments

1. Tabatha says:

   September 18, 2009 at 4:05 pm

   Greetings.
   First of all I would like to apologize for my rather bad grammar since english isn’t my native language.
   Secondly…the Gorean Philosopy, if such really exist, is not just about the M/s part, it would be about much more. I truly understand a womans needs to serve the men she loves in every way it is required, but since slavery is illegal she’ll always have the opportunity to say “no” when things are getting too hard.And I doubt that the so called real Gorean slaves would be willing to take many things which were mentioned in the books without being traumatised. Many things regarding slavery in the books reminded me of Human Trafficking, which is something that is more than just cruel and shouldn’t exist anymore. I also doubt that Mr. John Norman would support such. Another thing would be, since a slave have no rights at all… would you really give up custody for your children if your master insist on that? This would be very hard to believe, and makes a mother a very bad one..and also not very valuable as a woman.I also believe that the aspect of the inner beauty which is revealed after a woman realizes that by only being a slave to men she can be truly happy must be very appealing to women which are not blessed with beauty.Back to the above mentioned…..are you seriously willing to do EVERYTHING for your master?! If that would be the case, then you are giving up on yourself, and that wouldn’t be intelligent nor strong. It seems obvious that people just take the parts of the books which they liked the most, and that has nothing to do with living after a certain philosophy.Besides,Mr. John Norman started to write the books back in the sixties, but only since the internet offers so many possibilities, all the sudden people claim to be in the lifestyle for so many years.And, I have never heard of a couple claiming to live by this philosophy since the first bock has been written. There are also many women online claiming to be submissive, but yet don’t want to serve their own husbands, since none of them is dominant enough. Well, it was mentioned in the books that even a “weak” master would have to be served perfectly…she, the slave could always beg to be sold or given away…if he wouldn’t wish to do that..oh well, too bad so sad. I am more than sure lots of husbands would be happy to have a wife that serves them rather than to create an acccount and pretend to be submissive and wish to be owned by somebody they just know online. So, these women claim to do everything for their master, but they are not willing to end a rather unhappy relationship or marriage because there are kids involved…for example, and thats why they can liveout this lifestyle online only. This to me sounds contradictory.You talked about the challenges of being a kajira in today’s society..guess what, life is a challenge in itself. And since you said that being different wont be accepted by society, and that It threatens their imperfect little bubble, I wonder why you still hang out with such people, otherwise you wouldn’t have ” to adjust your behavior and house rules when friends come round to your home or you are visiting”. Besides,in his own house your master makes the rules, and if your friends can’t accept you for what you are, then you should ask yourself of how much value such a friendship can be. Do you remember what happened when the blindfolded and chained slave in “Explorers of Gor” was being pushed through the streets and stumbled into a free woman? She was kicked, although she wasn’t responsible…she couldn’t see where she was going, nor could she walk right. If a free woman were present at your masters house and she would decide to punish you for something you did to her accidently….or another masters kids would treat you badly for whatever reason……and remember, all free can punish a slave for being unpleasant..that is Gor…..I doubt that you will beg forgiveness and continue to think of this lifestyle as the perfect one.I am convinced this “lifestyle” wouldn’t exist without the internet….and if I am wrong and many really celebrate and live it, then your statement wouldn’t had to be made, since you could share your thoughts with like-minded people offline. No offense intended, just my personal opinion on this matter. I am neither submissive nor dominant, and my man and I are very happy together…without me being his slave and he being my master.

   Best regards
   Tabatha

   Reply
   • Clanbear's Becca says:

     September 19, 2009 at 12:19 pm

     Tabatha don’t fool yourself. Human Trafficing still exsists and as the economy gets worse so does the trafficing expecially of young boys and girls. The Daily Show just recently covered a news story done by one of the networks on this very thing. Yes I get all of my news from the Internet, The Daily Show and the Colbert Report. LOL

     John Norman based his cultures on the Ancient Greek and Roman City states as well as the Bizenteen Empire (sp) People actually did use to do those things willingly. Slaves use to run the goverment while their owners played and got all the credit. You cannot read these books in the context of modern phylosophy. It is not a modern sort of book. Could everyone live that way? Of course not. Are there a few that can? Absolutely.

     I will not lessen the writers commitment to who and what she is by claiming to be a Kajiar. I am not that dedicated. I wish I was. My Husband and Master is very much the kind of man who easily could thrive in that enviorment. I on the other hand at this point in my life cannot. I am raising our children and it just isn’t approprate right now. Give me another 15 years and that could easily change.

     You cannot take what is in the books litterally. As applied to an M/s relationship the books are more of an Alagory of what can be. No one has a tarn parked in their back yard. This writer knows that. She knows who she is. She knows what she can handle and what she can’t. She strives to move past those things she can’t. She works at it harder than anyone else, all the while fighting a battle of people who even in the BDSM lifestyle wish to dismiss her as some abused woman.

     She obviously isn’t. She is aware of all the implications and accepts them openly and honestly. More of us should be able to do that. There would be a lot less toping from the bottom if we did.

     Reply
     • Tabatha says:

       September 19, 2009 at 5:53 pm

       Becca,
       I appreciate your response regarding my comment, but obviously you didn’t get my point. The reason I mentioned Human Trafficking is because of the cruelty which was shown in the books…the force to submit,or die.As I said, there has been no offense intended, but since dina felt the need to sort of complain about the challenges of a kajira in todays society, I on the other hand felt the need to state how I view her post in my own opinion. So, are you trying to tell me that John Norman started to write his books about Gor in the sixties to give people a hint of what modern philosophy should be like? And since lots of people seem to be convinced he did write the books not just for entertainment but also to let people know that a man should be a master and a woman a slave, I wonder why he never called himself a master and his wife his kajira. To me it doesn’t matter if a woman wants to be a mans slave, his mistress, his doormat, his mother etc..but the world does not just include two type of women…the dedicated slave and the frigid free woman. You mentioned the tarns in the backyard, which made me smile, because thats what people often use to seperate the books from the lifestyle…..you could’ve also added the fact that she can not wear silks at WalMart….but you must admit that many things mentioned in the books can be done on our world, even if only within a masters own walls, things which can be called abusive. To punish another with a whip for instance just because this person wasn’t pleasing enough is abuse, period. I have never heard a so called Gorean slave “say” that when she had displeased her master he simply have her kneel by his side and talks to her about it…punishment had to be part of the matter. This could make one think that maybe the kajira in todays society is rather a bit masochistic and gains pleasure from being punished…that wouldn’t be Gorean at all. How true can a philosophy be if only parts are going to be lived? Or did Mr. Norman tried to give people hints about a lifestly that wouldn’t include cruelty, and each part mentioned in the books about masters behaviour towards the slaves which are cruel were just written to entertain the readers?! I also like to let you know that I am not into any part in the BDSM “Lifestyle”….I am just an ordinary woman that believes couples can be very happy and have their needs fulfilled as well without living a D/s or M/s relationship.

       Regards

       Reply
       • dina says:

         September 22, 2009 at 11:31 am

         Hi tabatha and Clanbears becca,

         1. I live as kajira because within that lifestyle choice I am able to be myself, not shades of that woman.
         2. I do have two children both under ten years of age.
         3. I have had 17 years experience of a vanilla relationship and marriage.
         4. I have many friends who are vanilla, some know of my lifestyle choices, some do not. They all all still my friends though.

         Right, *smiles* now that is said, tabatha – with the greatest respect what you have written for me, emphasises exactly the misconceptions and negative stereotypes I was referring to in my blog post. Unfortunately those stereotypes also exist within the bdsm community at large. If it were possible to live freely and openly as such it wouldn’t be the struggle it is, but the negative assumptions people make without understanding the facts have on occasion resulted in the authorities becoming involved in what are perfectly happy and fulfilling relationships – all in the name of ‘protecting and stopping abuse’.

         Human trafficking is illegal in all countries of the world, and for very good reason – it is a base abuse of human rights which should not and cannot be tolerated by anyone.

         Gorean philosophy is far, far more than the books. They give the guiding principles which provide the basis of the lifestyle. The books are fiction. nor more, no less. (and if you ever read some of the early books… really bad going as well).

         Abuse is abuse, but what about RACK? Personally I prefer to use the SSC principle myself, but RACK fits here better. MY version of what is kink, may not be YOUR version, but if as adults we are RISK AWARE and CONSENSUAL, what you would term as abuse I would not.

         There is a lot of real abuse out there going off behind closed doors, abuse which is not consensual, not warrented and should not be tolerated. my Master however, is not a brain-dead neanderthal UG who thinks that beating up a woman or cruelty is normal or fun. He is a caring, honest, strong willed Man, one whom i thank God every single day for being in my life. I am blessed to be able to call him my Master and he most certainly does not abuse me. As humans we have a basic human right – it is called FREE WILL. As humans we also have the right to give up that right. It is not a step to be taken lightly – if ever.
         That said, it has taken many many long discussions and exploring with my Master before I CHOSE to give up that right. I did so and I am still learning to deal with that, it is NOT easy, it is NOT stupid, it IS what I chose to do in full knowledge of what that entails. If my Master asked me to leave my children – well, that is not a bridge that would be crossed, not because I would or would not do it, but because he would never ask it of me. He considers my well being first and that includes mental well being. It would devastate me to be apart from my children and he knows it.

         The world we live in is a beautiful, colourful place… if people accept that we are all different, we all need differing things to be happy this transient time we have. I have found that happiness with my Master, in being held by Him to the standards he sets me. Yes, if I disobey I am punished – that isn’t abuse, it is what I consented to when I CHOSE to surrender to him and no, I don’t enjoy it. But we verbally chastise children and they do not enjoy it – is that abuse?

         I have lived for many years a vanilla lifestyle. I can say that yes, for me it was an easy option when I was trying to deny who I was. Vanilla lifestyle is completely right and correct for the vast majority of people but not for me. Should I stay in that lifestyle just to ‘fit in’ with what other people expect? should I deny my own nature, forfit my happiness to comply with what other people deem to be correct?

         Punishment comes in many forms, the worst of which are not physical..
         dina´s last blog ..An Early Post revisited – Jealousy

         Reply
2. Aeros Wraithe says:

   September 22, 2009 at 9:42 am

   Tabitha,
   I know you have your viewpoints and which everyone can appreciate and respect. Please do not say that my kajira wrote this essay to complain as that is not even close to the truth. It is an assignment I had her write out to help herself grow in what she is and to help those that are new or following on the same path. dina has her own insights, which like you, some may not agree with. Most will accept that. Far as what the books applies, not everything applies to realtime, but it is the philosophies and lessons within that are to be learned from within the pages. After all, not everyone has the same needs that follow to fulfilled happiness. We all have to strive for what makes us happy, no matter if it is a vanilla relationship, a M/s relationship or a Gorean relationship. Long as you strive to grow and become a better person, the type of relationship does not matter as long as you trust the partner you are sharing with.

   Reply
3. Tabatha says:

   October 1, 2009 at 3:37 pm

   Finally I find the time to respond. I wondered if I should ask my husband to do that for me, but decided not to. Like I said in my first comment, there was no offense intended…I simply “dared” to say what I think. To me the words “slave” and “slavery” is associated with cruelness rather than romance….the latter seem to be something you guys happen to discover in the books. I am going to list a few points here, and this will be my last comment.

   1. The so called philosophy is based on natural order…something that has been mentioned by others before John Norman/Lange wrote his books about Gor.
   2. The books have similarities with other books. Therefore he didn’t really had anything new to tell.
   3. The fact that most women in the books had to be forced first, only to realize later that this is what they truly need seemed to me a little ridiculous.
   4. Sex played a huge role, just think of the many women which were brought to Gor and also the free women and how they changed after having their first slave orgasm…*Speaking of that, my man and have have incredible sex, yet I don’t feel like a slave afterwards*
   5. The so called lifestylers all just take parts from the books which at the end, doesn’t really have much to do with the novels anymore….besides the so called philosophy they will have discovered between the lines……* I rather take somebody seriously that tells me he/she believes in it, yet he/she isn’t a master/slaves but believes that even without being such one could believe in this so called philosophy since it wasn’t just about the M/s part*.
   6. I begun to work with people, mostly women, back in the 80’s….BDSM already existed, and I listened to many people and their stories which all were based on their kinks/fetishes…..interestingly Gor was never mentioned although the first book was published in the 60’s….*that brings me back to my statement that without the Internet the so called Gorean lifestylers wouldn’t exist*.
   7. The fact that a slave doesn’t worth more than an animal and therefore the owner can do with “it” whatever he wants..including the beating/selling…* I have to add here that I would not even punish my dogs with my hand or a tool, and it is sad enough that people still do such….not just to their animals but also to their kids*
   8.It has never been easy for me to understand that somebody would get pleasure out of being physically punished….but the fact that a woman gives a man the control to do such whenever he thinks it is necessary, yet she claims to fear such punishment, is something I don’t understand at all. I wonder what these women would tell a women that has been physically punished because her husband wasn’t pleased with the way she did certain things.
   8. It makes me chuckle to read the so called (Gorean) slaves say that they are aware of the fact that these books are entertainment only and that Gor doesn’t exist but yet they call themself “Kajira” although it is a Gorean word and therefore a non existing language. A little contradictory, huh.
   9. Although I am not even slightly interested in anything that is part of BDSM I must admit that I rather respect a person that admits his kinks/fetishes than somebody that doesn’t dare to do so but rather base such on a philosophy. In my point of view the so called Goreans are nothing but kinky people who doesn’t have the guts to admit that.
   10. Besides…a philosophy is something one truly believes in and in such a case would want his kids to learn about it and believe in it as well…..your so called Gorean philosophy and the things you feel the need to share with others online is a kink/fetish….nothing more or less.
   In that sense..I wish you well.

   Reply
4. will says:

   November 4, 2009 at 4:27 pm

   you are soo wrong Tabitha…love exists in many forms. words are not the things. society has people brainwashed. people can live how they wish and no one should intervene, if everyone is happy/ok.

   Reply
   • dina says:

     November 7, 2009 at 5:26 am

     I must thank Tabitha for her words.
     Not because she has changed my perceptions, or because I agree with her, but because she has made me think.

     Someone who makes you think and question should always be thanked and I thank Tabitha for posing comments that have made me do that. I may not agree and I may still believe personally that Tabitha’s comments highlight exactly what I was saying originally… but we have opposing views and that is fine.

     To avoid any protracted flaming here, I have a post on my blog “the challenge of closed minds” where I have addressed my thoughts in response to Tabitha.

     be well
     dina
     x
     dina´s last blog ..The Challenge of Closed Minds

     Reply

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